Episode 1: The Origins of CIH and the Future of Healthcare (Liz Baer L.Ac, M.Ac)

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SPEAKERS: Dr. Andrew Wong, Liz Baer

Welcome to the Capital Integrative Health podcast, a podcast dedicated to transforming the consciousness around what it means to be healthy and understanding the root causes of both disease and wellness. I am Dr. Andrew Wong, co-founder of Capital Integrative Health, an integrative practice committed to expanding access to holistic root cause medicine to the global community.

To kick us off, we thought of no better person to start with than Liz Baer. Liz is the co-founder of CIH and has been a leader in the growth and beginning of CIH. She is an acupuncturist, Reiki master, certified psychedelic-assisted therapy and research, and has training in functional medicine. We are excited to have her join us today for a conversation on the origins of CIH and to discuss the future of healthcare.

Dr. Wong:

Well Liz, let’s start from the beginning. How did we meet?

Liz Baer:

Well, that’s a fun story to think about and it’s definitely one we’ll have to weave together because we’re both working, we both had a vision for this place far before we ever met each other and my memories of it are that I was working in my solo practice out in Takoma Park as an acupuncturist and was starting to feel the need to provide more comprehensive care to my patients and I was like, we have to start to integrate. We have to find relationships with doctors and other healthcare providers in order to provide the kind of care that our patients deserve. And so I started, kind of in my own mind developing this concept of an integrative center. And from what I remember, you were doing the same thing where you were and something brought us together one afternoon at an IFM meet-up, functional medicine meet-up in Bethesda at Le Pain Quotidien and it was like (snaps). I remember it as (like) pretty electric which is like our brand of, our brand of beautiful crazy got together.

Dr. Wong:

Exactly.

Liz Baer:

And we were like, “ Let’s do this”.

Dr. Wong:

And I think it was a shared vision really that like you said it happened years before we even met so it was very instantaneous like this is a great opportunity here to create something amazing and beautiful.

Liz Baer:

Yeah and it was so for me I don’t know about for you but I just, it really felt like, felt like a miracle to find you because um to meet you because I, you know, I’ll never forget our first kind of conversation as we were walking to the parking lot and I had said like “ Hey, what about this” and you were like “ Ooh, I kinda like that”. You had said and you’ve said it many times but you had said you know it’s all about love like at the root cause of this health is love and I had never in my life ever heard a doctor say anything like that.

Dr. Wong:

And we know that with integrative health, right, there are things like “ What’s the research saying?”, “ What’s the clinical experience saying?”, like all of these types of things and what/how can we best help patients but at the end of the day, it’s not necessarily about us helping patients, it’s actually about participating in their healing and that’s where love comes in and that’s where compassion comes in so I really felt in meeting you that this is a healer. This is someone that really resonates with that vision that I had as well.

Liz Baer:

And then it moved really quickly, right? So I went on vacation and I don’t know what you’re doing, but it was midsummer within a month of meeting each other, and probably only about four or five conversations we filed for our LLC that was in September (early September). And we met, I think, at the very last weekend in July, and then by January, we had signed a 10-year lease.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah, that’s incredible. Just that kind of commitment for not having known each other for that long but it is also something like when you meet someone and you kind of know that this is the way to go, this is the way we want healthcare to go. And you don’t really find that from a lot of people. I think meeting them often, and you know, I think we both found that (meeting each other).

Liz Baer:

Yeah. (And) I think it’s a testament also to how you (we) are with patients is (was) you have to trust deep inside your bones about things. And you have to listen to it even if it sounds a little bit risky; a little bit wild and a little mad. You have to kind of trust it sometimes.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah, exactly. It’s like going with the gut. Like in functional medicine – it’s all about the gut. But I think also with the spirit is about going with your intuition, that kind of gut feeling. And you know this place has now been open for seven years, which is amazing to just think about. (And just) I think we’re both grateful for everyone here at Capital Integrative Health – we’ve really blossomed organically – like I joke that it’s then without any GMOs or pesticides, you know? It’s just kind of been growing organically. That is the origin story. I think let’s go into your background a little bit, as an acupuncturist, as a healer starting out in acupuncture. What made you become an acupuncturist? How did you get involved in traditional Chinese medicine or traditional type of acupuncture?

Liz Baer:

Well, I’d say, I was born a pretty sensitive human being. Let’s put it that way. And I was born (also) into a really traditional system. (My parents) In my family, they’re civil servants and then there are lawyers – and I think at the time that I applied to acupuncture school there were 11 lawyers in my family. All of them doing meaningful work, you know? So, there was something (inside me) in my corporate job, because I was doing healthcare PR and marketing, and my body was telling me “No”. It just told me “No”. And so, I had to listen. I really didn’t have a choice and I’m so grateful for those signals. The signals were anxiety, depression, and panic. The feeling that every day I would come home with this like, I was trailing this phantom with me of sadness. I guess really, in a way, it was telling me I can’t do this; I’m not someone to climb a corporate ladder. That’s just not where my heart is. I’m not interested in that and the best use of me, which I’ve always kind of known, is in the one-on-ones. (I love) I’m so fascinated by human beings and how they function; what drives their heart and what drives their decision(s). (And) So finding a profession that was going to bring me to that place of intimacy, in the interpersonal relation, was like, that was what my body and my heart wanted.

Dr. Wong:

So you knew and your body and mind were kind of telling you that you needed to make a change. How did you decide on acupuncture?

Liz Baer:

(Yeah) I decided on acupuncture, honestly, through the process of listening. So when my body was telling me this, I started taking my lunches outside and I started reading Thích Nhất Hạnh and Dalai Lama. And really sitting with, I knew that I wasn’t going to figure this out. (So) I had to do a lot of listening and you know, there were vectors that came in that kind of pushed me one way or the other. (It’s like) My mom had been seeing an acupuncturist and she (my mom) was reading Deepak Chopra in the bathtub for as long as I can ever remember. And so, there were little influences. (In)My mentor at my corporate job, his wife was at the FDA and just finishing up acupuncture and I would have these conversations. (My) body sensation was like – “Oh! This is right. I’m doing this”. So, I just followed that.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah. You followed that intuition – listening, sounds like some research, some reading but also some introspection and just like listening to the signals.

Liz Baer:

A lot of it. It honestly was a lot of listening and sort of even like deprogramming myself from what I sort of assumed I was supposed to do with my life. And just being in that discomfort so that I could hear what I was drawing into.

Dr. Wong:

Your journey really reminds me of this saying like no person is an island, too. Right? Your mom, the other person at the FDA – like everyone’s kind of working with you; the universe kind of working with you to kind of get you to that point. I had a similar kind of experience too. In my first job, one of my first jobs, I did feel palpitations. And then I was (you know) kind of talking to colleagues – talking to my sister – you know my sister got me into acupuncture, but one of my colleagues got me into functional medicine. So I think the same thing but then taking that information and actually, doing something with it and listening to your body. Because sometimes we can go through years or decades and if we don’t listen to our body, this is potentially where dysfunction can come in.

Liz Baer:

Exactly! Do you know Andy, of the concept of pronoia?

Dr. Wong:

No.

Liz Baer:

Okay. There’s this writer, I think he was part of the Grateful Dead. I’m sorry if I can’t remember the perfect reference to who he is, but he says like “Pronoia is the antidote to paranoia.”. It’s this concept that instead of everything working against you, everything is working for you. Everything. The illnesses, the uncomfortable body sensations, the closed doors – all working towards your movement to a wholeness within yourself.

Dr. Wong:

Assuming that we listen to those messages, yes? Or even if we don’t?

Liz Baer:

You know the thing is, it’s going to tell you. It’s going to find ways to reach you, you may not like them so we might as well just listen.

Dr. Wong:

Exactly. The message is going to be there.

Liz Baer:

It is going to be there. So you need to get the gentle way or you could have the really hard way, what are you going to choose?

Dr. Wong:

Right! The little wave or the tsunami? O guess, yeah, I got it. And so for (the) acupuncture, what do you like most about being an acupuncturist?

Liz Baer:

I mean it’s the people. I love people. I love having my ideas about a human being shattered. Because you know? No matter what, we always come in. We can’t help this. We come in with a presumption about a person, right? Because we’re trained and it’s like in our DNA and in our nervous system. (And) I love having that blasted open and seeing what’s under the hood. So for me, that’s why I do it. Human beings are fascinating.

Dr. Wong:

And connection is what makes life meaningful. (And) So what better way than something like a healing art, like acupuncture. And you know acupuncture is something that I found, as a medical acupuncturist, that when I do functional medicine acupuncture, I find some healing is happening inside me when I do acupuncture. So, this idea that the healer also gets healed with that kind of modality.

Liz Baer:

Yeah. And I mean for you, what do you think that is?

Dr. Wong:

I think it’s activating in these certain elements that maybe lie dormant. Otherwise, if I don’t do that – if I don’t do something similar to that- what I see it’s more of a balance and using different parts of your mind, body, and spirit.

Liz Baer:

I also think (too) when we can start to see someone holy, and not just as the pieces that we want to see, we start to allow for more compassion. And in allowing them to be their perfectly imperfect expression, we start to allow that for ourselves.

Dr. Wong:

Integrative health is all about seeing the whole person; the light and the shadow side – all parts. And really validating all of that. Recognizing and acknowledging all that as we kind of know. What has been the role in your clinical experience, and I think either personal or professional, of acupuncture in the patient’s health journey? Like, say their integrative health journey.

Liz Baer:

Yeah. Well, I mean acupuncture is such an incredibly elegant system of addressing balance in the body. And so, I think of acupuncture, and I think of reiki and bodywork, and all these beautiful modalities as complements to one another. Because you know, no one has the whole picture and there are different doorways into one’s health so where we are in any given moment in time – what’s happening in our external world, what’s happening internally – some modality is going to resonate more than another. It’s going to be like that’s going to be the first doorway in. So, I think of acupuncture as one of those. It’s exceptionally great at that because it’s precise but also, incredibly expansive. And it is built on the deep knowing and observation that we are part of nature that wants to seek balance. And that when given the right circumstances, it will seek balance so you know coming in with that as a core, like embodied understanding is really useful.

Dr. Wong:

So, to my limited experience, initiative acupuncture was like – “Oh! This is going to be great for the treatment of pain or you know the treatment of digestive issues or hormonal imbalances.” and then it was kind of like, “Oh, there’s prevention and treatment” but then as I got more into it, and I did some acupuncture training myself, I realized that acupuncture is not only for prevention and treatment but like you just said very eloquently, it’s about shifting the mindset really of even what it means to be healthy and well. And even for me, I found that acupuncture was something that shifted the way I think about myself, the way I conceive of the different elements that are in my body, mind, and spirit. As opposed to saying that this person has XYZ and then we need to treat this – it’s like let’s just look at the whole person. As a whole, we have all the elements that we need already.

Liz Baer:

Right. And you know in functional medicine and in acupuncture, you can go in and be a technician. Like, you can do that and it can be useful. And we have the ability to make it so much deeper and so much richer if we’re so inclined to do so and if the patient’s ready for that.

Dr. Wong:

It’s kind of like the ocean. You have the superficial wave that you see on the top, but then you have that underneath with all the fishes, and the squid, and all that stuff – acupuncture is kind of like that.

Liz Baer:

Yeah. I was just thinking, it’s a funny analogy but I was thinking about the HBO show about the hundred-foot wave. Have you? So anyhow, it’s about these people who are surfing this hundred-foot wave and when you’re looking on the surface, you’re like “Holy crap! That’s a massive wave!”. You don’t think about what’s creating that wave. But what’s creating that wave is that in Portugal is this, like a canyon that’s – I don’t know – three to five times deeper and wider than the Grand Canyon.

Dr. Wong:

Oh, wow!

Liz Baer:

So, you think about that. I mean, it’s the same thing with the iceberg analogy. It’s like we see something at the top and sometimes we get really seduced to think that’s what it is, and that’s what’s causing it. But that’s when you get to go deeper ( if you choose).

Dr. Wong:

That’s great. So, let’s (gonna) go broader now and talk about the future of healthcare, and you’re a pioneer in this space- integrative health; co-founding Capital Integrative Health here, how do you feel? How do you view the roles of wellness modalities such as acupuncture and reiki integrated with medical care as we kind of move forward in 2021 and beyond?

Liz Baer:

Yeah. I mean, I think it goes back to that idea that none of us has the whole – like we’re all parts of the picture, you know?

Dr. Wong:

Pieces of the puzzle.

Liz Baer:

Yeah, pieces of the puzzle. So, I do think that the more we can offer and make (them) accessible, these kinds of treatments to people so that they can start to basically start to own the fact that health is within them. It’s innate – that we can keep searching outside but it’s a reminder that like, “Hey you know what? It’s in here, we got it.”. We have so many miraculous methods to get to greater balance.

Dr. Wong:

A lot of times you look for the shiny external object like this is the supplement. This is the thing that’s going to cure us or get us better. But it’s different. The internal aspects of health and healing, and acupuncture and reiki, and many other wellness modalities actually activate the innate healing processes.

Liz Baer:

And you know Andy? It’s sort of segways and if it’s okay with one of the questions, I think you were going to say (about) “ what is an optimized healthcare system?”. I mean, part of it is that we have to really acknowledge that we are still functioning in a very old, in a way, somewhat calcified mindset when it comes to health, which is the externalization of our own healing power. So, we look to doctors to have the answers. We literally outsource our health.

Dr. Wong:

I was about to say outsourcing.

Liz Baer:

We outsource our health to our doctors. I don’t want to use the word paternalistic because it’s more like there’s a dynamic with healthcare practitioner(s) and patient(s) that’s more parentalistic. I don’t want to just put it as paternalist, it’s parentalistic. We put ourselves in this childlike state with our doctors, and we want someone to solve our problem. And I get it, man, I want someone to solve my problem a lot of time. I don’t want to have to face all the stuff that I have to do to make things happen for myself. But ultimately, we’re going to keep seeing the same thing over and over until we can start really shifting.

Dr. Wong:

And sometimes it is (clinically, getting) helping the patient or client see that over time building that relationship. At first, they may need some therapies that seem more parentalistic, etc but I agree with you wholeheartedly. I really feel like, and I say this a lot in the clinic, (is that) when I’m talking to patients that you are the CEO of your own health. So, if you think about it – if you’re the CEO of your own health, why would you want to outsource that to someone even as you know learn it as a doctor, or an acupuncturist, or another healthcare practitioner. At the end of the day, people have advice but at the same time, you have to listen to your innate wisdom of your own body and understand what health means for you.

Liz Baer:

And I think we have to acknowledge too, that there’s a lot of healthcare trauma out there and life is just overwhelming. It just is.

Dr. Wong:

It’s increasingly overwhelming. Now, we have Covid and a lot of things.

Liz Baer:

And sometimes, we just want someone to tell us what to do. And I think too, that’s one of these nuanced sorts of balances in the relationship that we as providers have to have which is knowing when to create a very strong container that creates a sense of safety for that person’s nervous system – like okay, here are the steps they may need. And then also knowing once we build confidence in that, to step back and sort of introduce ideas of self-sufficiency.

Dr. Wong:

Some flexibility depending on where people are and meeting them where they’re at and things like that. (We can go on to) Let’s delve into that a little bit more, so in your view, sort of an optimal ideal world, what would an optimal healthcare system be for you?

Liz Baer:

The biggest thing, I think, is access to quality care. That’s the biggest thing for me. I mean that’s the overwhelming, like foundational thing, that I wish for (I dream for). And we have to really acknowledge that even “affordable” healthcare is really not affordable for many many people in this country.

Dr. Wong:

People don’t have access. They don’t even know that healthcare, especially integrative healthcare, even exists, sometimes, that it’s even an option.

Liz Baer:

Totally and for some people too, we also have to acknowledge that healthcare doesn’t feel safe for a lot of people. So, there are all these things. I dream for access to safe, complete healthcare. I mean that would be great. And then, of course, healthcare that starts to really delve into and allows for us to teach skills at a very fundamental level, on how to care for yourself. And that needs to start early on; it starts with children.

Dr. Wong:

That’s when I think the brain is the most malleable. The neurons are kind of growing. Developing the synapses and certainly, this can provide the worldview, you’ve heard of that I think, saying that 95% of what we know we learned by kindergarten or something like that. So, what if we taught everyone integrative healthcare and ways to lifestyle; ways how to breathe, how to move, how to plant seed(s) so that we can grow some food, and those type(s) of things would be amazing. So, what other healthcare or health modalities are you exploring at this time in your career here?

Liz Baer:

Yeah. You know, I think it was in 2018 when I applied to do that certificate in psychedelic medicine and I completed it at the end of 2019. I mean, that’s a big part of my heart right now because I see this progression of like root cause and as we keep delving deeper into what root causes, like in my experience and I don’t know that it’s true, but I’ll just say for my experience, a root cause goes back to how our consciousness experiences reality and returning to a place of remembering our wholeness. Psychedelic medicine really is a wonderful tool for that.

Dr. Wong:

True health and healing really involve a shift in consciousness. So, consciousness medicine like you’re accessing here and referring to, it makes a lot of sense both analytically and also intuitively, you know, this is where we need to go. How can we move our systems: our bodies, mind, and spirit from a point of a place of fear to (like) acknowledging the fear, not shoving it away but also making room for love and openness and these type(s) of things. (And) You know, consciousness is something that we don’t really talk about a lot in medicine or healthcare at all. It’s like, what are the conventional protocols, what are the integrative protocols, and these kind(s) of things? But we don’t really talk about what is the cassette tape that we’re waking up to every day that’s really dictating our lives. That’s amazing and so I’d love to hear if you want (to talk) about your experience with how you got into this a bit more, I guess, and what has been the process of being involved in that therapeutic process of using more psychedelic medicine or consciousness medicine.

Liz Baer:

I was lucky enough for, honestly, in the same kind of (like) magical way that you and I met and CIH was created. I was lucky enough to have the stars aligned to put me in a situation where I got to attend a weekend retreat with some wonderful physicians to experience psychedelic medicine and it was so mind-blowing to see that, I don’t want to use the word power of it, but the healing potential, I guess I would say, the potential in it that when I left that weekend I was like, “Okay”- It was like that knowing, it was like that same knowing starting CIH going to acupuncture. It was like there was a full-body yes to that. And so I started investigating it more and I started committing to exploring it myself every few months and getting to know it, getting to know what plant medicine looked like but I like this analogy of sometimes we see someone pointing at the moon and we’re looking at the finger that’s pointing as opposed to the moon. And it’s sort of the same, in a way, with plant medicine- a lot of work, there’s a lot of focus on the plants- but what we are actually pointing to is consciousness. And this expanded perspective that allows us to understand the ways in which our nervous system is making choices, the ways in which our conditioning is making choices, the stories that we’re living in, the reality that we’re creating, and to have more choice within, really that’s it, to put some of the breaks on some of that patterning and create more space so that we can live up more authentically.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah and consciousness medicine, I believe you had told me before, it affects the vagus nerve too (and) the nervous system. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Liz Baer:

Yeah, I think one of the reasons why it is psychedelic medicine let’s say, but also consciousness medicine is so effective for things like trauma is that it does, I think sort of re-pattern some of that sympathetic-parasympathetic relationship. You know, all that stuff, all of this fear and all of this programming is built into our nervous system, definitely built into the amygdala – amygdala hijacks the decision-making parts of our brain and everything like that. (And) Psychedelic medicine allows that to loosen a little bit and it builds new neural pathways; it builds new ways of seeing things but it’s not just an intellectual kind of thing like you’re reading about it. It builds it in your body so it goes back to that idea of body knowing. You get an embodied experience of it and we can’t really deeply remember anything or change anything unless we experience it in our body also because that’s where all of this stuff is built-in.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah, the memories are there, right? Definitely. And how do you envision in the future psychedelic mushrooms integrating with healthcare because I think in some clinical trials now in different places?

Liz Baer:

Yeah. I think you know, looking forward, MDMA is likely going to be the first one that gets out into the healthcare world.

Dr. Wong:

Right. Right.

Liz Baer:

And because they’re using that for trauma, all different types of trauma, lots of complex trauma including with like veterans and things like that. And psilocybin will be, if all goes well, not too far after that, how it’s going to integrate into the healthcare system, I really don’t know. I mean there (are) a lot of companies that are (like) trying to figure that out and a lot of them are in silicon valley not to be surprised, right? So, it’s gonna be interesting, I mean there’s gonna be a real mash-up of like capitalism, commercialism, spirituality, consciousness medicine, and yeah we’ll see how it goes. It’s going to be an experiment.

Dr. Wong:

Well, that’s very exciting and you know, I think we are gonna be watching all these research and kind of clinical trials and all the different movements that are coming up with both psychedelic medicine, consciousness medicine, and really just kind of keeping up with your training as well. So, thank you so much Liz for joining us and if you enjoyed this conversation, please take a moment to leave us a review. It helps our podcast to reach more listeners. We did the first one today, that’s been great with Liz here. Thank you so much for taking the time to be with us today.

Liz Baer:

Yay. Thank you so much! Bye Bye!