Episode 71: Nature Informed Therapies for Mental Health with Tania Lanning, ​LCPC

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Tania Lanning:

When it comes to mental health, you know, just accepting the circumstances, right? Like, I recognize that historically, when I am out in public and it’s loud, I’m, I’m jump right up to the top of my window. And I know what happens, my heart starts racing, my I start grinding my teeth, I start looking around, right, just knowing what those responses are based on the experiencing that you’re going or, you know, perhaps on the hypo arousal, you know, I, I, you know, I need to, you know, remove myself from a situation I isolate a little bit more, I have feelings of sadness, right? This stress recovery that can happen from having this awareness can come from, again, from nature and form therapy, and also just this self advocacy of having the language to be able to say, and to witness through mindfulness. This is what’s happening to me. Right. And I think that’s really important as far as preventative medicine is recognizing that, that even having this awareness can help reduce blood pressure, stress hormones, can can boost endorphins, right? And all of that has been researched with with nature and form therapies that, you know, that supports us getting to know ourselves.

Dr. Andrew Wong:

How can we use the wisdom of nature not only for general wellness, but also if we had mental health issues and mental health imbalances, per se? Today’s guest is Tania Lanning, who’s an integrative wellness therapist and holistic psychotherapist. Her integrative approach to counseling combines numerous holistic therapies, including nature informed therapy, mindfulness meditation, psychodrama and experiential therapy, yoga and wellness consultation, really a beautiful practice and an amazing practitioner is so fun to chat with her about her. Her therapy approach, specifically with nature and foreign therapy. Just in case you don’t know my name is Dr. Andrew Wong, co founder of capital, integrative health right here in Bethesda, Maryland, we are opening up a second physical location in Potomac. And by the time you will have heard this podcast we will have been open at that point. So we’d love to have you in either location there. In person, we’re also doing a bunch online. And this includes community service for those who are not part of capital, integrative health, as well as those who are, this is the podcast that you’re listening to right now is dedicated to transforming the consciousness around what it means to be healthy, and understanding the root causes of both disease and wellness. And part of that is transforming the consciousness around what it means to be out in nature. So it’s not just about looking at the trees and seeing how nice they are. But it’s also about nature can be a healer, it can be a primary healer for us, and can really move the needle on our health and wellness. So that’s what this conversation with Tanya is about how nature can be integrated into therapy for incredible results, and what you can do at home to incorporate nature for your wellness, whether or not you’re seeing a therapist or not. Welcome, Tanya, great to have you here. Great to see you again.

Tania Lanning:

Thank you. It’s really great to see you too. Thank you for having me.

Dr. Andrew Wong:

Yeah, so we’re gonna talk a lot today about, I think, a deep dive into into mental and emotional health. But let’s kind of start with your story and how you got into wellness counseling and holistic psychotherapy and all your, you know, healing journey in this integrative space here. And

Tania Lanning:

absolutely. It’s been a lovely journey, actually, it’s been, you know, I come from a family that’s been has a lot of mental health issues, my oldest brother has schizophrenia. And so when I was growing up, for me, it was being a sibling of someone who I didn’t understand what was happening. And so the journey began and trying to be a very present family member. And, and also, you know, just recognizing that within each of us, we have needs, mental health needs, physical spiritual needs. And then that that brought me to really wanting to look into psychology and and, you know, body work more than anything. My My father is actually a surgeon. And so the idea was, oh, yeah, I’m going to be I’m going to be a physician, right? Because there’s a lot of that in family systems and and I wanted to, you know, from a self advocacy perspective, which I had from a very early The age I like to shout out to my mom for, for supporting me and being who I am. But I wanted to do that my way. And so I went to massage school. And I, I started there and I started really exploring what it meant to, to find these emotional spaces through the body. And the deeper I went into that process, the more I started recognizing that the you can’t separate the mind body, from from the process from the experience, the experiential aspects of it. And so I knew that my next step was to go in and search where my mental health world roll was going to be in. So I went to Hopkins and I did the mental health counseling route. And in the meantime, I started working with cancer care, and I started doing mindfulness and bodywork in suburban locally. And it it was just such a beautiful dance of being able to, to not only be part of the the healing journey of the mostly women because it was a lot of breast cancer care and women’s care, but also to, to feel really present to, to witnessing how touch breath mindfulness has a deep impact in the, in the quality of life of people.

Dr. Andrew Wong:

Absolutely. Yeah. That’s,

Tania Lanning:

that’s the start of it. Yes,

Dr. Andrew Wong:

and continuing so, so now, you do work with it sounds like this, this mind body. You know, I often used to say connection, but it’s, it’s really a unity, you know, together, but what are the most common types of people that you that you work with?

Tania Lanning:

So I have, I have a tendency to when, when I’m asked this question, right? Anyone, anyone can can open up, since I’ve, you know, you know, the, the aspect of nature and form therapy is, is something that has always been braided into the work that I’ve been doing, recognizing, you know, using it thematically or using it as a resource. So, lately, a lot of a lot of women are women presenting humans coming to me and, and, and we’re doing a lot of work on, on anxiety management, depression, either, you know, recognizing role changes, so mothers, a lot of mothers and, and through that, I mean, there’s a plethora of ailments and, and needs that that show up there. You know, my practice, one of the most important things for me is, is being able to have a space where people can show up as they are, and they’d be able to create their own practice. Yeah, right. And so I created actually, it’s called the ease wellness model. And it allows people to honor their authenticity of, of healing places the power back into, into where, where the healing needs to happen, which is from within, and having a really struggle resource support.

Dr. Andrew Wong:

Absolutely. So the ease wellness model. I love how you said that, you know, essentially, there’s this innate healer inside of us that can get activated and I think that’s so empowering for, for, you know, for everyone. Can you go into the ease wellness model a little bit more, maybe start with that.

Tania Lanning:

So it’s the E A, S E, the E is wellness model and the E. The first E is embrace authenticity. So honoring the, the authenticity of healing our truth, really leaning into our individuality as a source and a resource for healing and strength based, you know, strength based deepening, I like to call it almost right, like there’s this reinforcement and, and, and not always thinking we need to seek outward. So I start there. And then the A is accepting your circumstances. I like to call that like the meat of the of the model because accepting your circumstances is that’s a lot, right. Like, depending on what what the circumstances are. There’s a lot of space for, for more of the like the clinical work in the mental health world, right? The the attachment styles, the role theories, all that kind of goes into that space, but also what it looks like to be able to turn towards what is happening in your life and have a better understanding of what it is and be able to just sit with that. And then the S is source your resources. I mean, if anything, I believe, mostly in being able to know what those resources are, and if you are lacking and you need, if there’s a need that’s missing, to find a resource to at least one resource, it doesn’t have to be just a person. It doesn’t. I mean, nature has been a very significant resource for a lot of people during the pandemic. Right, and and accentuating the resources that exist already in your life is a strength based approach that I believe in for. And then I see that it’s not, it’s not just I keep saying I believe in but it’s not just what I believe in, it’s what I see being being utilized in a way that is very beneficial to the people who who are asking for it. Right. And so the resources are internal as well as external. Yeah. And then the last part is the Envision your wellness with gentleness, gratitude and ease. And this is the this is the creation of what the wellness plan will look like. The secondary part is the ease up the you utilize the planning, and then the practice. And, and that part is more what I like to think of more of like a coaching aspect of it, because you’re, you’re going from the clinical to the coaching to like the, the action based. And so at that point, it’s, you know, the whole entire process has been the clients been client based, yeah. been created by client, I help them I either give them some type of printout at the end of the year, we review it mid year, and then they can make their adjustments. They look at the first II, for instance, and they’re like, that’s a truth that I said, and I’m like, is it still your truth? Shall we like, explore why that makes you feel some curiosity, and honoring that curiosity. Right on, you’re honoring that with, with a sense of, of awe and resiliency, right? So yeah,

Dr. Andrew Wong:

thank you, it’s so validating to the this ease up model. Just the, just the, the first two, especially like embrace, and accepting. And it kind of brings to mind as I hear this kind of like how the heart chakra is opening and accepting to you know, what is because that, like, I think you said, that’s kind of like, some of the first steps to, to you know, healing is acceptance, and it’s like, seeing what’s really going on. And it’s having an open, open mind, open heart, you know, kind of thing,

Tania Lanning:

I love it. And then we’re also bringing, you know, the chakras into into the possibility as a resource, right? So, you know, being able to, to notice that and thank you for for bringing that in, allows the client then to say, oh, there’s this whole nother world that maybe that maybe that language is something that feels well, that resonates with my being, right, maybe the clinical words, in the diagnoses, right, which, which I tend to, you know, respect and honor. But maybe that’s too harsh for where I am at this moment, right now, maybe I need to, to go into a space where I recognize the importance of the body where we’re honoring that strength. So absolutely, yeah. The opening up.

Dr. Andrew Wong:

How long does it take a client to, you know, working with you to kind of develop this ease up model it maybe it depends on each client before you start working on, you know, the utilization and the practice part of it.

Tania Lanning:

Yeah, I mean, you hit exactly what you just said. It depends. It depends. Some people take onto it, like really quickly, right? Some people like the container of, you know, tell me, you know, give me some cognitive behavioral activities right now, so that I can go home and do my homework and, and that’s fine. I have some of that too. I love homework. I don’t always call it homework, but I you know, I, I strongly encourage you know, with different activities. So it does depend. I, you know, the quantifying is a little bit tricky. It takes I think it takes away from the self advocacy part of it. Yeah. Um, I, if there’s acute anxiety or acute depression that that somebody is coming in with, the first place I’m going to go to is actually to the s the resource, I’m going to make sure that they’re well resourced. I want to know that, you know, that they have community family, if there’s a space that they’re lacking, that’s one of the places that I want to make sure that that in a container creating kind of space that they’re, they’re feeling held and seen and safe. Yeah. Checking in with her language, right. So it depends it you know, I have, I have people that I’ve been seeing for five years, and I, I see them once a month, and we do check ins, and we’re more now into the coaching aspect of it, right. And they’re, they’re like, enjoying the, like, this is what you know, the check ins, this is what I’m doing. This is how I’m feeling and we have a little bit more. I mean, I’m about to say fun with counseling. Yes. And we have a little more fun with it. Me, right. Like,

Dr. Andrew Wong:

life Life is too short. Yes, for sure.

Tania Lanning:

And then like talk about what it does physiologically, right. Like bringing fun into into the process of self care. It’s okay. Yeah, no one that no one’s told us that it’s not okay.

Dr. Andrew Wong:

So you’re saying self care doesn’t have to be drudgery? No, great. Yeah, that’s, that’s a whole mind blowing. I

Tania Lanning:

feel like your centers like that. From the second you walk in, to be honest with you. Oh, I so I, I’ve noticed that that the people you can you can feel it. That’s that’s the energy again, the container creating when you walk into a space that believes in the power of laughter and, and softness, that allows for the safety of the body to sink in. And then that’s where healing happens. Because if we’re tight, and we’re close, right, even from a bodywork perspective, if you go into to a session and you get, I just want deep tissue, and the person digs in, then you forget all those layers, the fascia, right? Yeah, the fascia is, my goodness. So so much delicious information there. If you dig right through to it, then you know, the, the information that you miss out on is possibly that of, you know, I need I take a little bit longer to warm up into a place.

Dr. Andrew Wong:

Yes, let’s talk about that as a little side tangent, because that’s very common on this podcast, but in bodywork, what I’ve noticed is, you know, if I treat someone say, with with acupuncture needles, not only with the patient, breathing, and you know, having some intentionality behind it, but if I’m more intentional, and I’m kind of centered, I think it kind of takes to to to ideally make that space, you know, very healing that interaction. So what you had said there about the fascia being tight, it just kind of brought me to the space of, it’s about kind of getting back into the body in a way because a lot of times we do, you know, we’re gonna talk about trees in a minute, but it’s like, if we have a tree, and we think we’re going to have some healing there, but the trees uprooted. Right, in a way, a lot of our kind of superficial daily interactions, I think tend to be maybe uprooted and not not grounded, and then the body and the spirit and, you know, mind all together, but um, I think, yeah, this model is, is really great for people that are, you know, I think struggling with, you know, the traditional medical model, I would even say of, you know, diagnoses and you know, need to be put on a medication and things like that, not that it replaces that. But it’s it’s important to know that, you know, if someone’s listening out there that, you know, they have the they have the ability to work on their healing, you know, themselves and with a trusted professional like yourself.

Tania Lanning:

Absolutely. And, and again, I want to reiterate, you know, medication has its place, you know, I do I, particularly with with mental health, the preventative aspect of it, I think is always overlooked from a mental health perspective that once once we’re deep in it, and and we have been diagnosed, we get slapped with this, like diagnosis, and then, you know, whether it’s a textbook that’s being followed or what, you know, we begin to externalize those resources. And, and I just wish like, there could be a great pause. Yes, right. Yes. Where we could just come in and be like, okay, yes, you now have this diagnosis. Yeah. Can we take a step back to the space where you do love going for walks? You already have a yoga practice? Yeah. Can we bring that back into the present and can we like give them a larger role? So this idea of role theory and being able to do Almost like this role has been advanced to precedent self care. Yeah, you know, creator, and and looking at these roles that that had been there perhaps all along, whether it’s culturally, I mean, there’s so many beautiful I know, like, for me, one of the reasons before we get into trees, which, you know, I’m very excited about, but one of the reasons that my, my work involves a tree, you know, tree ally practices, is because I grew up with a mother who, who would say, you know, just stop and listen to the wind in the trees, so beautiful. And of course, you know, teenager, I roll insert, you know, whatever hair flicking, I probably did at the moment. But I listened. And it registered. And I carried it through me. And I and I feel very fortunate that that is actually something and I feel innate. I’ve felt that since since I was born, this connection to nature, right? Yeah. And this removal from that, from a more typical medical model isn’t highlighted enough, you know, the, the freedom to move around the freedom to be curious about our own experiencing?

Dr. Andrew Wong:

Yes, yes.

Tania Lanning:

And what if, what if, what if doctors did that more with their like, so what do you what do you like to do on the weekends, Janice? Breathe? Hang out. Okay, let’s do more of that. And began to like, actually prescribe that, yes. What would happen? I wonder.

Dr. Andrew Wong:

I remember seeing a patient with chronic fatigue, and she wasn’t able to do the things that she liked. But after asking her what she likes to do, and she’d like to garden, so that was the prescription was to go outside, you know, and do more of what she likes, that brings her joy, which which was gardening. So these type of things actually, we’ve seen here anyway, we’ve just seen people get better from focusing on the aspects of wellness that, like you said, they already have insight or they already know, like, these resources, you know, to go back to, to their source, whether it’s nature, whether it’s body work, you know, something that they can do themselves even, right, absolutely.

Tania Lanning:

And not to mention the microbial, you know, support of that dirt. Yes. And the research that’s being done that’s showing that that can actually help with depression.

Dr. Andrew Wong:

Yes. The psycho biotics, psycho biotics, yeah, right, exactly. So yeah. Well, let’s get into the secret life of trees now. And let’s talk about nature. Yes. Let’s talk about nature based mental health therapies. Even those words Chuck’s juxtaposition together, they seem like an oxymoron. But yeah, let’s talk about the relationship between nature and mental health and how you weave that in so beautifully in your practice. But why were you first on this type of therapy? I think you kind of mentioned about your, your mother’s saying about, you know, listen to the wind, and, yeah, tell us about all about trees. And, you know, the best way to hug trees via nature. Yes.

Tania Lanning:

I can, I can already like foresee my, like childhood friends, you know, smiling from the other side. Because, you know, I really, you know, I was totally a tree hugger growing up, you know, I wore the tie dye shirts with like, you know, the, you know, that shirt. I see. Yeah, you probably did, too. Oh, yeah. So, I, I just, again, you know, my family’s from Argentina, I had mentioned that. And when I grew up, I had I was like an in between world a lot. So I would go I would spend time in Argentina and I would be the, you know, the cousin or the American girl coming. And then when I would come back here, I had all these cultural spaces that I I just always felt an in between space. And, you know, when I was younger, I struggled with depressive symptomology. And the only place that I ever felt safe and heard. And yes, I had friends in my trees and I named them but they were there. They were constantly there. I would speak with them. I would I would be held by them. And and that sense of safety has has held me and carried me through through my adult years. There’s nowhere that I feel safer than in the forest.

Dr. Andrew Wong:

So great. Yeah, yeah. And the forest has its own language. It sounds like yeah, if you if you are able to listen to that.

Tania Lanning:

Absolutely. I mean, there’s there’s a lot of you You know, scientific evidence of the quote unquote, language of trees, right? They communicate through, you know, underneath the ground from mycelium, you know, yeah, energetic, and they also excrete pheromones to protect each other, and they hold each other and they’re in community, there’s so many themes, that from a mental health space, right, you can already begin to see that these are, these are really beautiful themes that that really just, you know, feel good to know that interbeing connection can occur, and that these themes can show up from, from just being present. So then it’s it is from a mindfulness perspective, you begin to create a mindfulness practice around noticing around just, you know, sitting and, and creating a sensory experience, through gratitude, you know, one of one of the, I have plenty, but one of the, one of the requests at the beginning of taking client out for session is that kind of, it’s always met with a positive, interesting, especially if they don’t have that deep of relationship yet. Right? Or they don’t know about their deep relationship, I should say, right? Because because it’s within all of us, is, before we enter a space, a woodland space, is that we take a moment we observe and we ask permission to to enter that space. This, this, this energy allows us also to recognize that there are beings that we’re about to start co creating with, yeah, so I really, I really look at nature as a co therapist, for me as some as a presence. That’s, that’s, that’s, again, creating a container.

Dr. Andrew Wong:

Yeah, that’s so beautiful, that that you asked for permission to enter the forest. And it’s almost like, you’re establishing that relationship, just like if you’re having a cup of tea with a friend, hey, do you want to meet? So it’s this kind of, yeah, you know, relationship attitude, just getting to know you didn’t, you know, yeah, exactly.

Tania Lanning:

And I like going to that same same space with the client, so that they, you know, I have different spaces for different clients. Unless I’m seeing multiple people back to back. But I have a tendency to, to notice that. In doing that, you’re getting, like you said, getting to know the space a little bit more. And then one of the tree ally practices is, is walking in. And just without, you know, this, this is the mind body kind of reconnect without putting too much cognitive, I don’t know, too much thought into it, just move towards a tree doesn’t matter, just just do it. There’s no right or wrong answer here. And then we start creating an establishing this ally ship. Right? And then that’s, that’s perhaps a tree that we work with for the day. Right? Nice. And in that practice, it could be a multitude of things can happen. And, you know, I couldn’t I could probably spend the rest of the time talking about the tree ally practices, but But even the greeting, you know, so there’s the greeting the asking to enter the woodland space, but also asking to, to, you know, asking permission, consent, right. We’re also beginning especially with, with younger, younger clients, this consent culture, trying to establish that, you know, asking for, for your space to be, you know, valued. It’s also practicing their language. Yes. around that as well. So,

Dr. Andrew Wong:

yes, you work with, with kids?

Tania Lanning:

I, you know, I don’t I mostly work with adults. But I have since since we’ve been in probably in the last few months, I’ve had a lot of parents asking for language and support around being in nature as a mindfulness tool for for their children. Yeah. So what I’ve been doing is actually I bring I say, Do you want to come along parents? Because I want you know, maybe it’s one or three sessions. So these are more short or short term sessions that I that I offer, because I want the parent to know what I mean. Like I don’t, I would love to pass along that those exercises, and then that becomes, you know, a really healing space for a parent and child to be able to go into nature and maybe they’re like, remember that, you know, activity. Should we try it? Right? Yes. Even if they don’t do it, they’re out in nature and they’re walking together and maybe they’re connecting a little bit deeper, and the child is worse. receiving the benefits in their nervous system, whether they like it or not. Right?

Dr. Andrew Wong:

That’s a powerful medicine. Yeah, from medicine? How about touching a tree? You know, you said getting to the tree space, or, you know, interacting with the tree interact with the forest than the tree? What about? What about actually like putting your hands or arms, you know, around a tree? What does that do? To our nervous system? And you know, how is that beneficial?

Tania Lanning:

Absolutely. So, so this concept of right trying to, to move into our body a little bit more, so we get the kinesthetic sensory receptors kind of lighting up, number one. That I mean, I would say that that was one of the largest aspects of this the most, most palpable is, you know, yes, walking up to the tree, noticing the root system, noticing if you want to place a hand on a trunk, right? The, you know, different trees have different textures. Recognizing what those textures are putting, again, language development is a big part of this, like the, the psycho linguistic component of it, being able to have a, like, a bio language around how we are relating with with, with sensory experiencing. It also allows for our system to say, I have a choice here. Right? I, if I don’t want to, you know, there’s some, there’s some, you know, individuals who have hyper awareness, or hype, excuse me, hypersensitivity, to touch, and maybe touching is like, not their thing. Right? Right. So then we’re also reinforcing that we have other senses, right? And so the visual, right, again, this is more of a strength base component here. So that’s fine. What do you see, like, let’s let’s create language about how you see things, what your world looks like, right? Is it you know, is it rough? Is it satiny? Is it are there crevasses are there cracks, right? And then that language allows us then we take that into the real world. And we say I have a choice here, I have a choice of how I, how I express and how I, how I create this experience, when I meet this new human right, I noticed that when I meet a new person, because of my trauma history, let’s just say and this is, this is just an example. Because of an individual’s trauma experience, perhaps they need space, and their sensory experience becomes very heightened in their visual, you know, processing. And even in being able to create that language or that noticing, we’re beginning to allow the nervous system to settle into, into our strengths, instead of being taken out of our window of tolerance, which is a is is a theory that I use a lot by Daniel Siegel. Being able to recognize what that what that safe space looks like, you know what that window is, and then noticing when perhaps we begin to move out of that window of tolerance either up or down, because of how we’re experiencing things. And when we’re with the trees where we can kind of you know, it’s not just the trees, right? It’s like perhaps you see the weather’s changing while you’re out there, and what does that do? Like? Do you become worried? What do you do when you’re worried? Right? Perhaps you make the choice to begin to turn around on the trail, you know, and highlighting these things that might seem minut but traversing a trail and making these decisions is pretty significantly the beauty beautiful metaphor for traversing life and not knowing what’s going to be around the bend you know, what is that bird? What are these noises Am I safe? Am I like feeling heard right? Yeah and and do I do I need anything in this moment and constantly doing the check ins with the body so yes, hugging trees. Like, if that’s your thing, go for it right ask permission go in and place your hand around the the energetic exchange that happens. So this is more into the spiritual dynamic here and and also the, the trees himself have movement, the xylem and phloem have their own sort of similar to cranial sacral vibrations, right? So you feel the resonance between the energetic movement of the tree into your system and settling into that and through practice. It’s just beautiful to know that interbeing connection can occur outweigh so you know, hands on roots sitting back to back, that’s, that’s a common one, if if you don’t want to hug a tree, yeah, you can place your backup to it. And breathing, oh my goodness breath, right? Remembering one of my favorite exercises is recognizing that Trees give us oxygen. And in turn, we give them carbon dioxide. So this theme of reciprocity, so wherever like your back to back with a tree and, and you just tune in to the fact that like I, this is oxygen that you’ve provided me with Thank you, gratitude, I shall provide you with a reciprocal exhalation

Dr. Andrew Wong:

literally exchanging energy, literally exchanging energy. And we should point out to that the carbon dioxide concentration in the atmosphere outside is a lot lower than, than indoors. And I think a lot of times we spend time indoors, and look at pictures of our trees, on you know, our windows or PC or Macs, you know, and things like that. So, it’s really nice, I think, to to get outside and kind of connect back to where we as humans, you know, originally came from, which is, you know, nature, I mean, we are nature, but I think so, to this nature based therapy idea. It sounds like it’s really, it’s so deep, I mean, when you start talking about the trees, and all the different things that you could do with trees, and how do you interact with trees in the forest, and the weather and the birds and, and even like ants and stuff, you know, when you’re, like, just looking, I remember looking at a tree, you know, recently a neighborhood and say, oh, there’s a lot of ants that are, you know, carrying stuff back and forth. And it’s there. Yeah, like fall away, right. And they go into the crevices of the going up the tree, and it’s really fun. And you wouldn’t notice that if you if you didn’t take a breath and exchange that, you know, oxygen, carbon dioxide with the tree, and be present.

Tania Lanning:

Absolutely. And you bring you bring up the this point, right that we are, we are creatures of nature, I mean, we’ve only been inside for, let’s just call it 300 years of existence. Yeah. Before this, we were outside. That’s how we survived nature’s nature is our household, it’s going back to home, right? Yes, but also our ancestral need, like there’s a deep ancestral calling, every single person has this in common, there is a deep need to have some type of relationship with nature. And, you know, the beauty of, of the nature and form therapy is that there is accessibility, but there is, you know, I mean, I, I have to highlight the fact that some people do have some fear or some, some trepidation about being outside and that’s, that’s okay, that’s part of the process. And if that, if that exists within you, then, you know, I really encourage you to, to, you know, have a little bit more curiosity around how perhaps, that can be healed. Because there’s, there’s actually researched, that even visually seeing a photo of nature can help reduce, you know, the, the cortisol levels. And, like, if that’s, you know, whether you’re bedridden, whether there’s there’s deep anxiety that’s happening that’s keeping you from going outside, where can we bring nature and form therapy inside as well, that’s, that’s very much a part of the the process, if that needs to happen, particularly with when I was working more with cancer care, you know, there’s some individuals who are inside for their immuno, you know, needs, and you know, whether that’s bringing a plant in or opening the window a little bit more, at least 20 minutes, so that they can get the sensory experiences, not just, you know, going outside and hiking,

Dr. Andrew Wong:

they can’t physically go out and hike or something, they could even look at their plant or subject and even the winning and photos,

Tania Lanning:

even photography, you know. So there’s, there’s, there’s access for everyone, depending on what your situation is, and, and how beautiful to recognize that that’s a resource for anyone and everyone even in urban settings, right? There’s, there are gardens, there are parks, you know, there are spaces and if there aren’t, and you feel like this, this is something that you’re interested in, then how can you make that happen? Can you find resources to be able to create more nature in your life? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah,

Dr. Andrew Wong:

that’s That’s huge. That’s a source rather a resource that that we all have or we all could have is nature. And then And then, how people interact with nature basically, like like you said, You know, we’re part of nature, and just kind of remembering that. So, you know, this is kind of a general question. But, you know, you said nature kind of impacts our nervous system by decreasing cortisol and it kind of provides a sense of safety. It probably stimulates the vagus nerve a bit. Yeah. Wait, write all of that love the vagus nerve, the vagus nerve. Yes, we do we do. We do some chanting right now to chant outside of the tree. Right?

Tania Lanning:

I mean, absolutely. I’ve done it, why not?

Dr. Andrew Wong:

So this is a good question for, for you, as a licensed massage therapist, and as a psychotherapist, how does our nervous system, you know, impact our mental health and our physical health? I mean, that’s, you know, because everyone’s like, Oh, nervous system, of course, I know what that is, right? intellectually.

Tania Lanning:

Right. So I mean, we’re looking in, in this case, we’re looking a little bit more at like the, what I hadn’t spoken to a little bit before, which is the window of tolerance, I’d like to use this as a as an, I love a good diagram, I love a good visual like, especially for clients who are like, very wrapped up in, in their, in the processing. But, so the window of tolerance is a lovely way to check in with with how this, your nervous system shows up. But you know, through the day, our body goes through parasympathetic, sympathetic, it’s, you know, an up and down process, whatever we’re experiencing, it’s, you know, it’s either helping us slow down, or it’s, you know, lifting us up, you know, depending on how, how an individual’s experience life, whatever has happened, whether there’s big T traumas, small t traumas, or, you know, high stress issues, we each have what we call what Daniel Siegel calls, window of tolerance, which is a, consider it a square or a rectangle. And as we’re moving through the day, going through this parasympathetic and sympathetic space, if you’ve had a lot of, of unsettled traumas, then there’s, there’s a chance that your window of tolerance is much smaller. So we’re thinking about it from an arousal perspective, right? Your, your, your hyper arousal, if you’re going into perhaps a more anxious space, takes you out of this window of tolerance. And that that window is, is what is what is a container, right, that makes us feel in homeostasis, or in you know, aligned with, with what our needs are. And recognizing what are those things that take us out, and those that take us, you know, above hyper or hypo arousal. So when it comes to, when it comes to mental health, you know, just accepting the circumstances, right? Like, I recognize that historically, when I am out in public, and it’s loud, I’m, I’m jump right up to the top of my window. And I know what happens, my heart starts racing, my I start grinding my teeth, I start looking around, right, just knowing what those responses are based on the experiencing that you’re going or, you know, perhaps on the hypo arousal, you know, I, I, you know, I need to, you know, remove myself from a situation I isolate a little bit more, I have feelings of sadness, right? This stress recovery, that can happen from having this awareness can come from, again, from nature and form therapy, and also just this self advocacy of having the language to be able to say, and to witness through mindfulness. This is what’s happening to me. Right. And I think that’s really important, as far as preventative medicine is recognizing that, that even having this awareness can help reduce blood pressure, stress hormones, can can boost endorphins, right. And all of that has been researched with with nature informed therapies that, you know, that supports us getting to know ourselves, aka our mental health.

Dr. Andrew Wong:

Yes, exactly. Why do you think it’s important for nature based therapies to be part of treatment? I think a follow up to that would also be how, how common is this? You know, to have the availability of nature based therapies. I feel like this is not something that’s done offered in every, say therapy practice or every even I think, the last one to two years. I’ve kind of learned about it, but before that, I didn’t even think it was absolutely an option. Well, I

Tania Lanning:

I I, I love that this is happening, right? So the center for nature informed therapy has been created. And I’m actually certified nature informed therapists. And there’s a program that is just like trauma informed therapy, there was a there was a large push in the therapy in the mental health field for everyone to become trauma informed, right? As I believe wholeheartedly in not just mental health, but I believe it should be in yoga as well and, and other and other supportive facilitator spaces. But there’s this, the Center for nature and form therapy is it’s hoping that all therapists will become nature and a form of therapy because it’s so accessible, and it’s so part of our need and system innately. Right? I mean, there’s Biophilia is a, it’s a book that has existed in the late 60s, right. And, of course, his name is going to this is not my forte, think I probably wrote it down somewhere. But I can send the resource of the name, but this knowledge has existed. And so now through the center of nature and form therapy, they have created a program that helps therapists, it’s a three day full intensive program. And then there’s a mentorship program afterwards. And it’s a community of facilitators that create groups. And they have a private practice in Towson. And and, you know, we’re just, we’re just hoping that that more therapists just turn to work towards it. Right? That’s

Dr. Andrew Wong:

a great worse center located,

Tania Lanning:

it’s in Towson, really, super local. Yes, this is

Dr. Andrew Wong:

missing the DMV?

Tania Lanning:

Absolutely. And hopefully, we’ll put some resources up later for you to be able to access it because they have a lot of information there too, about programs to do that can that can aid not only clinicians, but also individuals looking for.

Dr. Andrew Wong:

Yes, I was gonna ask you about the training programs that 3d program in person, is it? Is it online or in person in person? Yeah. Makes sense. Yes. Hard to do everything on Zoom. Right?

Tania Lanning:

Yeah. Especially if you’re doing this in person. Luckily, right now it’s in person. It’s, you know, I know that we got to ask those questions. Now. The support is there’s a lot of online support to i, they do clinician development afterwards. I actually did a training on psychodrama. So I’ve been part of a psychodrama cohort for the last 10 years as well. And I use I combined, I created this element and psychodrama, matron form therapy approach. And so I did a little, I mean, it was like a, I think, a 90 minute or a two hour. Oh, my goodness, PowerPoint was the word I was looking for. And, and yeah, just, you know, I think I kind of wanted to this plug, right? Like we’re clinicians, we, we also have so much authenticity of how we show up for our clients, and what nature and form therapy for me, that’s what it’s done. And the group of clinicians that I met, is, it’s like, we’ve already been doing like, we’ve been out hiking with our kids, with our grandparents with our friends. And we feel so good. And now I can do what I love where I love. Right? So talk about, you know, reinforcing us, as, you know, as helpers, doing what we love, and we benefit from it, too. So, I mean, it’s, you know, like, let’s, let’s do what we love, where we love and continue supporting people. And

Dr. Andrew Wong:

is this for all mental health professionals? Or is it for other clinicians as well? Or

Tania Lanning:

it’s, it’s for mental health professionals? I want to say that it’s that uncertainty, but for some reason I have a I’m pretty sure it’s just for mental health

Dr. Andrew Wong:

professionals. Yes. Well, this is so great to learn about this center, right, and telson, which is super local to us here. And yeah, I’d love to learn more about that. Are there any nature based practices that you recommend people use at home at self care? Let’s say they’re not seeing a therapist right now. They’re looking for kind of ways to source their own resources, which include obviously nature, any kind of self care practices you recommend based on nature, but just in general as well?

Tania Lanning:

Absolutely. So easy space to go is to the senses. Yeah, so finding a place whether it’s outside your in your neighborhood, I’d say, First, find what’s near you. Before going out and finding you know, a trail Take a moment walk outside your house. And notice what your neighborhood trees look like. Yes. So they’re your neighbors also?

Dr. Andrew Wong:

Yeah. Right, then think about that, right? Yes. Yeah. So

Tania Lanning:

that’s, that’s my number one. Right? Like, be where you are. Yeah. And, and, you know, again from a preventative and accessibility space. And then, you know, wherever you choose to go walk in. And something I love to do is I’ll ask my clients to just go and gather to walk around and just gather three things. And bring it back. That’s it. That’s my that’s my exercise. And this is great. Also a side note for parents with kids. Because it feels like a treasure hunt. So I call it a treasure hunt for the kids. Yeah, I use different language. Sometimes they use with adults too. And let’s have a treasure hunt. And bring me three things that that ignite. So in Spanish, we say cheese, cheese, cheese back, like that ignite day, a little spark a spark of curiosity or interest?

Dr. Andrew Wong:

Do they have to be natural objects? Or can they be

Tania Lanning:

variably? I mean, if they find litter, you know, talk about honoring mother with with picking up trash. Yeah, I mean, that’s, that’s something I was going to mention on the back end. But yes, when we’re out there, that’s something else we can have our eyes open to how can how can I help someone who’s helping me? Right? Yes. And that’s the way we can help Mother. Yeah, how we can help Mother Nature is see trash, pick it up, throw it away. So three objects, bring it and bring it to a space and sit with them. Right? And identify three places in your life that needs some attention. And name each of the objects that what I’ve noticed is really, there’s just just been this really beautiful. I mean, in a way, some you know, there’s this transferring of this emotional, internal space. So in psychodrama, we say concretizing, it’s a way to concretize the emotional environment, okay. And then you can either begin mandala so this is part two, you can just stop at collecting these three things sitting with with those three emotional spaces that need tending to either placing intentions with each of the three. And if you want to expand and you have time, place them in the center and begin to create a mandala with natural resources, right sticks, stones, wherever you are, wherever you are, I mean, all of the all of the you know, let’s not like rip, rip all the roses off our neighbor’s yard or anything like that for our mandala. But whatever is there and start to create a mandala mandala represents, you know, holding, creating container and holding space for whatever you’re processing. So it’s a mindfulness activity that really honors being in the moment. And creating creation is huge. So from curiosity to creations, so much, so much emotion can be processed, so many, so many places of of unknown. Like there’s I don’t know about you, but sometimes you just sitting there like, I don’t know what’s happening right now in my body, but I feel a little sad, or I feel a little right overwhelmed. And we can get lost in the needing to define it so much that we we actually don’t honor the process of being okay with feeling that. And then insight arises. And I feel like through creation insight is like just right around the corner.

Dr. Andrew Wong:

Yes. So it sounds like holding space for the mystery, that when you create a mandala that say or you’re observing emotions, or thoughts or feelings, there’s some mystery around that. And then some insight will arise at some point whenever it’s ready to arise. Absolutely.

Tania Lanning:

So it can be a mystery mandala. And it also can be an intentional mandala. Like I’m creating this I’m grieving the loss of, you know, this individual or pet or, or loss of job or role. Yeah, because we can grieve roles too. And I want to create a mandala that represents we’re creating rituals also in ritual creating. We, we play significance and intention and what’s happening. And then through that process, we we honor ourselves, like oh, this is for real, like this is actually happening. This isn’t just an internal, you know, energetic that’s that might unground me or, you know that I feel like nobody else feels right. Then we bring in self kindness. And then we bring in I mean, there’s beautiful work in with around self kindness right now and so compassion. I needed more for sure. Yes, absolutely. And, and sit with it and sit, you know that that is a mindfulness, right that is a mindfulness meditation practice right there. And I’d like to like just say that because some people think that you have to sit, eyes closed, don’t think, you know, some people get scared of meditation.

Dr. Andrew Wong:

The biggest barrier actually to starting meditation practice. Yeah, is the misconception of what what it is or what it could entail? Absolutely. But it sounds like it can be an awareness based on you know, nature based therapy, you’re creating mandala is based on natural objects, and then you’re transferring or concretizing that to those objects. And being mindful. Right. Seeing was seeing what’s there.

Tania Lanning:

Yes, it with the process? Yeah, it doesn’t, it also doesn’t have to be like, prescribed. Yeah, you know, this is, I think, just naturally being like, you know, you were talking about how you’re a water person and earth person naturally being like, more of an earth element. I like to hold space for what is going to arrive, I’ve always been like that. Maybe not the best one writing papers, you know, through my master’s program, you know, like, the paper will write itself? No, no way. That’s why I would be up till 4am The day before, but honoring your nature, like I know him that way. Right? Yes. And so I, I’m okay with it. Like, instead of bringing, you know, the shame aspects or the language around like, credit, you know, self criticism and that kind of stuff, the more that we honor, the process, and the more we honor who we are, the more you know, magic can happen, more intentionality and can happen. I

Dr. Andrew Wong:

wonder if if nature and being out in nature and doing nature based therapies can also teach us who we are to, like, you were saying, you know, I’m more water, you’re more earth or something, but going out in nature, does that teach us something about ourselves?

Tania Lanning:

Absolutely. So this concept of, of elements, so I have this, this part of part of the ease model is, I have this element theory of, you know, I mean, this concept of being water or earth, you know, air or fire, or if we’re looking at, you know, wood, depending on on what theoretical, what model model that we’re looking at, does teach us because there’s there is, there’s a spectrum. So I’ve created the spectrum. So for water, it’s like, when, perhaps when you’re you’re not imbalanced with your water, you can be just like a tiny little drip. And then on the spectrum, it can go all the way to a tsunami or, you know, torrential downpour, and, and really using those as representations of emotional spaces. And if you move along that spectrum, what does it look like when you’re grieving? How does your water show up when you’re grieving? Right? How does your fire show up? It? Does your volcano like when you’re angry? is, you know, can you begin to feel that like, bubbling with a new Yeah. Okay, name it, you have that visual, right? And breath, here we go. Again, nice, deep breath to allow you to bring that awareness to that space. Right? And then you know, with fire, it’s really cool, actually, because you know, that different. So I’m also a yoga teacher. So the the pranayama of breathing, right, there’s, there’s more subtle breathing that allows us to go more into into the spaces of Ian are the more you know, the the more young breath that will facilitate that that movement, and how can we use breath to soften into that fire? Not Yes, not like exhale and make that bigger fire? Yeah,

Dr. Andrew Wong:

that’s great. Thank you so much for that. So a lot of these practices are things that people can do at home. They’re free. They’re available to them at all times. Yes. What resources can you recommend for listeners here to learn more about nature based therapies? I think we’ll start with with that you mentioned the center is the resources there for the public as well. Absolutely.

Tania Lanning:

So their website is the this it’s called the Center for Integrative excuse me, the Center for nature informed therapy. And they have a really beautiful website. There. They’re connected to a practice in Baltimore. And all of those links are there. That would probably be one of the the first places they also have access to certified nature and form therapist so they have a directory books research. So all of the research that I references is basically in in their in their research spaces, but more than happy to provide that as well. Yeah,

Dr. Andrew Wong:

I have a general general sort of systems question. Is there any You know, push towards trying to link up with say, I don’t know, some of the more traditional therapy associations or, you know, kind of create these partnerships or links.

Tania Lanning:

Yeah, so creating partnerships is, is a big part of their mission. Yeah. So they actually have relationships with different parks in the area, I actually am creating some in this area right now, with hopefully Brookside garden, like, there’s lots of beautiful places. So I’m in talks with a couple of other locations. So that the school can be a program that can be accessible to people. And it doesn’t have to just be one on one, you know, therapy, or an A, in addition to your therapy. But it can be, you know, again, something that you learn as a practice with, with the container of the information.

Dr. Andrew Wong:

So this is a little bit of a interesting question, but thank you. Nature based therapy. Is it does it work just as well in say, the middle of Manhattan, you know, Central Park versus you know, Brookside which you can find pretty quiet spaces at brookside? Sure, you know, sure. Yeah.

Tania Lanning:

I mean, but because think about it, if you’re living in New York City, then you’re used to that energetic already. Right? Yeah. And we know that, you know, Central Park is there. It’s a resource. It’s an absolute resource. Yeah. Those trees are different trees. They’re different neighbors. They’re, they’re city trees. I’m serious. So you’re gonna get like a different energetic from the tree. But the tree still has its its intention is still to provide us with oxygen. Right. With with with shade. You know, I think it’s again, in honoring the authenticity of each being Yeah. So yeah, absolutely. If you’re in the city, you know, there’s more I don’t. I mean, I hope that every city has urban gardening, but the more and more I hear about it, the more you know, I recognize the importance of that I actually my my sister in law, she has a an organization that, that works in the Philippines, it’s based in the Philippines and does urban gardening there. And one of the aspects of the work she was doing was that was finding spaces that were riddled with litter, okay, cleaning it up and creating community gardens for people to create community, but also to learn about nutrition, right? That’s right. So if you’re, if your area doesn’t have it, and it needs it more than, like, this is where we have the changemakers. Like, then then, you know, hear, hear what you need, find what you need, and see if you can create a space.

Dr. Andrew Wong:

To talk more offline. We do have some of our team actually in the Philippines. So excellent. Yes. Yeah. Thank you. And in closing, thank you so much, Tony, for coming on today. This has been so beautiful. And this conversation is really important, especially now we’re in the third year of the pandemic here. And we are looking to turn inward into you know, how can we change and transform our health and wellness and I think this is a good opportunity for people to really see that they have the power within themselves to you know, create more ease in their life to use upon on your model. to uplevel your ease. There is what is it? What is one thing say? That’s very practical. That’s under $20. This is our under $20 question. Yes. That you feel has transformed your own health. A guasha

Tania Lanning:

stone. Okay. Oh my gosh. So, I mean, you probably felt it in when I was talking about myofascial but these are little for those who are listening and can’t see it, but it’s a beautiful little stone. They’re called some people call them Jade scrapers. I was gonna say it looks like Jade. Yes. They’re typically made out of jade. Yeah. They have a little area for trigger point work, but it is. It was first recorded actually During Ming Dynasty for being for being used for for pain relief. Yeah. And tell you what I lost this. And I was like, I could feel my system like looking like where’s our guasha so guasha Gu A S H A. And it means Rob heat and it creates it’s a tool that we can use again for self care. You know, like, you use it. You can you can use it on your forearm. It’s used it a lot for carpal tunnel for people who have any type of computer desk, job site or creating any tingling or tightness. I always recommend it for my clients as a tool for first time. Help. Yeah.

Dr. Andrew Wong:

Great. So it’s very accessible. And it’s obviously used professionally and massage therapy and East Asian medicine, but other people can use it.

Tania Lanning:

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, there’s a lot of YouTube videos you can check out. But even if you hold it in your hand, I mean, just trust your body. You know, you’re not gonna dig it into your carotid artery, please don’t put it in the front of your neck. Okay, so that’s the one place you shouldn’t I would say, you know, and if you have sunburn, you shouldn’t use it on your sunburn.

Dr. Andrew Wong:

Don’t put the pointy point on the like, with the

Tania Lanning:

little trigger point where on some acupressure points and you know, yeah, if you have, you know, it’s great for it’s great for muscular health. But if you do have, you know, any type of blood disorder, if you’re an anticoagulant, yes, that is another order. Yeah, that is another contra indicator, but those are two big ones. But for Thoracic Outlet Syndrome, or tension headaches in the back of the neck, it’s it’s a it’s a wonderful tool. And also just again, presence, having, you know, holding it in your hand and, and it’s soft, and you know, you can get the sensory

Dr. Andrew Wong:

thinking it has kind of a yen quality to it. Would you say at least from when I hold them, they seem very, like, balancing to me, because if I’m running more young, you know, little,

Tania Lanning:

I mean, I think the essence of it creating heat is interesting. Yeah, I think it kind of unifies. Yeah, no, that’s true. That right? Because the the ideas that it’s in, in reducing the tension, we’re opening up blood flow, and we’re trying to remove stagnancy. So from a CI perspective, that’s, that’s how we, we would use the language around that.

Dr. Andrew Wong:

That makes total sense. Well, Tony, thanks so much for coming on today. This has been so wonderful. how can listeners learn more about you and and work with you?

Tania Lanning:

Absolutely. So I have my website. It’s my integrative wellness. I know it’s very long.com I also have an Instagram I have two Instagrams, I have my photography I’m a photographer and and I paint and artists on my side get

Dr. Andrew Wong:

a lot of hats. Well, I

Tania Lanning:

mean, it’s all nature inspired. So just Ode to guy over here, right? Like she she just moves through me and I just love I love being able to share but my my photography and I use themes with my my trees, and it’s called my time with trees.

Dr. Andrew Wong:

My time like my time time. Yeah, my

Tania Lanning:

T I M E. Cute to if I wasn’t my time with trees. And then my my business website is Tanya learning. So ta n a. M as in Mary L A N N ing. And yeah,

Dr. Andrew Wong:

a lot of places checkout Tanya and her work. Thank you so much. Thank

Tania Lanning:

you. It’s a pleasure to take care.

Dr. Andrew Wong:

Thank you for taking the time to listen to us today. If you enjoyed this conversation, please take a moment to leave us a review. It helps our podcasts to reach more listeners. Don’t forget to subscribe so you don’t miss our next episodes and conversations. And thank you so much again for being with us.