Episode 8: HeartMath & The Heart-Brain with Health and Wellness Coach Liz Rees

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SPEAKERS: Dr. Andrew Wong, Liz Rees

Welcome to the Capital Integrative Health podcast, a podcast dedicated to transforming the consciousness around what it means to be healthy and understanding the root causes of both disease and wellness. I am Dr. Andrew Wong, co-founder of Capital Integrative Health, an integrative practice committed to expanding access to holistic root cause medicine to the global community.

We are joined by Liz Rees. Liz Reese is a national board certified Health and Wellness Coach. A positive Psychology practitioner, certified by The Flourishing Center and a certified HeartMath coach. Liz has worked with CIH to offer health coaching and has led several virtual group visits including HeartMath and a 30-day sleep reset. Liz utilizes a multi-disciplinary approach to wellness which integrates positive psychology practices with nutrition movement and biological sciences to help clients achieve positive lasting transformations in their lives. We are excited to bring you a conversation today about how your nervous system impacts your health and what you can do to improve your health. using HeartMath.

Dr. Wong:

Welcome Liz to the podcast. Thank you so much for being on today.

Liz:

Well thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure to be here.

Dr. Wong:

Yes, I know we’ve worked together for a while now and on HeartMath and many other aspects of CIH. You know, looking at mind-body practices and how that can improve health and wellness. But I think, first, let’s start with your background and how did you become acquainted with CIH? and let me just start with that.

Liz:

Sure. So, actually. I started with CIH as a patient at the practice. I got, I think about five years ago, maybe more. And from there, I started this relationship with Capital Integrative Health. So, I. It’s been a pleasure to both see it as a patient coming from that side but then also to be a part of the practice. It’s been really neat.

Dr. Wong:

That’s awesome. And what made you interested? In general. And I guess both coming to CIH but also more broadly interested in health and wellness?

Liz:

Well, two things really. So, one was my own health journey. Dealing with chronic illnesses and the other was when my mother was diagnosed with stage 4 ovarian cancer. She really opened the door to an alternative modality of treatment. So, she went to an integrative cancer center called The Block Institute. And that really opened my mind to something other than the just the traditional medical model. Because when she went there they really looked at her nutrition. They looked at her mindfulness. They looked at her stress levels it just looked at her whole being. Not just fighting the cancer and so that opened my mind. And then, I was dealing with my own chronic health issues at the same time and so I began to look at myself in a bigger way. Looking at my well-being from a broader lens. And so, that got me curious and I went down the rabbit hole of reading a thousand books and listening to podcasts and that’s what really did it.

Dr. Wong:

Great! And it sounds like both your mom and yourself had probably very different experiences than if you were going through a conventional model. Let’s say, and that probably opened up your mind to something you know bigger possibilities or different possibilities in any case.

Liz:

Oh absolutely! Especially, with my mom. You know, and it’s interesting because at the same time that my mother was diagnosed with cancer one of my best friends was diagnosed with cancer and she went the traditional route. And seeing the disparity between the two was really stark for me. My mom’s quality of life was just so much better, because she felt better through the treatment. And I believe it was because she was eating so much better. She was exercising, she was like focusing on sleep, focusing on the whole being. And I really saw how it worked. And then that contrasted with my girlfriend who was not doing all of these things and it was a much harder road for her. And so yeah, seeing the success is game changing.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah. Well that’s great that your mom was able to have some you know quality of life there and that that made a difference for her. I have a another question that’s along those line lines, is kind of what made you make the switch from being a patient to working professionally in health and wellness?

Liz:

That’s a good question. So, gosh. I started actually moving in, moving from my prior career which was in more International development. I’ve lived abroad for most of my adult life. I started that career switch when we moved back to the United States and that it was at that time that I went to Capital Integrative Health. So, it sort of happened simultaneously. And so then when I went back to school and began the whole health coaching certification with the positive psychology certifications and all of this. At the same time, I was working with Capital Integrative Health on my own healing journey. And so it was a natural kind of progression that once I finished and I was certified then COVID hit and that’s i think really what brought us together in a different way. Because, I saw that HeartMath could be a real benefit to the patients at Capital Integrative Health, especially in the midst of such a stressful time.

Dr. Wong:

And I will say, thank you so much Liz. For you know, working with us here. Especially, in HeartMath and the other coaching that you do. Because, I often tell patients that HeartMath is one of the most important. If not most, the most important thing we’ve done here at CIH during our history here. We can talk more about HeartMath in a minute and take a deep dive into that. But as a general, sort of another one more general question here is, based on you know, being a positive psychology coach, health and wellness coach, HeartMath instructor. What do you enjoy most about what you do on it on a day to day basis?

Liz:

That’s a good question. Gosh, so many things. One is, I just love connecting with people. I mean, that’s at the basis of everything. Is the connection that I get to have with people through the one-on-one coaching relationship and also in the group visits that we also run. And I absolutely love that. What else? I think the, some of the other things that I really enjoy is the deep dive into learning and being curious and everything that I share with client I do myself and so I love that. I love that, you know, really living the life.

Dr. Wong:

Walking the walk, yeah.

Liz:

And then you need to share that and see the difference that it makes in people’s lives. That’s satisfying.

Dr. Wong:

And it’s the difference between really doing healthcare. We’ve talked about this a lot here. Is you know, the difference between doing healthcare and and being well or being health right. Embodying that ourselves. I think it really gives us a much greater sense. And I would say appreciation for what our patients our clients are going through as well.

Liz:

Yeah. Absolutely. You can, you know. When you, because it’s not easy right? It’s not easy.

Dr. Wong:

At all. No, not at all,

Liz:

To live in a way that brings well-being. And so, when you do it yourself. You really come up against the hardness of it and that helps you to be empathic and that helps you to know you know what are what are things that work in helping to move the needle for other people because you’ve been through it yourself.

Dr. Wong:

There’s a saying about how to live a extraordinary life? You have to live outside the ordinary. In other words, there’s a bunch of inertia from either society or culture or like food systems or whatever. That’s kind of all. Kind of dub telling us towards this kind of quote ordinary. Which is not necessarily optimal health and wellness pathway. So, to get a little outside of that is to lead an extraordinary life. And, I feel like you know, you’re leading the way here so.

Liz:

Yeah. We’re coming. We’re pushing up against norms, unhealthy terms and behaviors of society and the messages that are all around us.

Dr. Wong:

Exactly.

Liz:

While we have to take radical responsibility for our choices in ourselves. We also have to remember that we’re not living in a bubble. We’re living in a context of a quite unhealthy society and messages and things that really impact us. And so, it’s you know, there’s room for us to give ourselves some grace to have compassion that this is a situation that we’re in. And at the same time to say, “Hey! I am a sovereign being, I can take responsibility for what I can control”. And while that’s hard, it is possible. It is.

Dr. Wong:

Yes, absolutely! I totally agree. Grace and compassion are essential to this journey. Because we’re all like you said, up against, I would say, you know, the normative kind of values of society. Which are not necessarily conducive towards health automatically. The other aspect you know, I would just add to what you just said is that, a lot of times. People don’t realize there’s other options out there to help their health, right? So, just having those having access but then also just the awareness that there’s something else that’s availabl. Like if your mom didn’t go to Block center and you didn’t have your own things and then even you didn’t see your girlfriend go through. What she went through. Like how would you have known without those kind of experiences? You know.

Liz:

Yes, yes. And I so appreciate that about Capital Integrative Health. Because that you are getting out this information and so many different modalities. With facebook, with you know, this podcast, with you know the patients that you serve. And, yeah. I think that’s so important and I’m happy to be part of it. Yeah.

Dr. Wong:

And I am also humbled and happy part of it as well. And I think we would also say that we’re really here trying all together collectively, to move the needle of consciousness about what it means to be healthy and well. And I think bringing out to more people you know. We know that health doesn’t happen in the vacuum. That it’s not just like every person is island and we’re having we’re like data points and we can like look at labs and things like that. But it’s also about the conversations we have with people and the sharing that we have. And those type of things, and of course the social and emotional connections we have with people as well. That really move the needle with people’s health. I have a similar journey and i’ll just say, in general, that you know family and friends have been instrumental you know sort of played an instrumental role in my integrative journey as well. So, I think let’s go into a bit on health coaching for a bit broadly and then we’ll get into HeartMath. But as a certified, nationally certified health and wellness coach. What are your primary goals when working with a client? And you know that this is a very broad question.But kind of in general, when you. When someone comes to you and it’s like, “Hey, I need some health coaching”. What are you kind of thinking about right off the bat with them?

Liz:

Yeah. That’s a great question. So, first and foremost my goals are their goals. It’s really a coaching relationship, is a client-centered approach right. And so I’m there as a cheerleader, as a support system as someone who asks good questions. As someone who maybe shares some information or frameworks i like to work with. Frameworks like this, is a way that you can kind of conceptualize your situation. Conceptualize what’s happening in your body. It’s a frame with which to look and that can be helpful. So, my goal is really helping them to look at their overall health and wellness. To really hone in on what it is they truly want. What they, what what do, they want with their lives. And how do they want to feel, who do they want to be. And then break that down into actionable steps that they can do. And then, you know, part of that is showing you know maybe there are some practices that they might benefit from or perhaps they want to make very very small incremental changes in some of the ways. That some of the things that they do, some of the ways that they live. Like for example, it could be, you know the way that they eat or you know, stepping out in the sunshine first thing in the morning. You know, there are lots of little things. So, yeah. My goal is their goal.

Dr. Wong:

And I think both of us grew up before the internet was launched, right? At least the major internet is that not to be specific about dates and times. But one of the things I thought of when you said that. And you know my goals are your goals and things. Is that you know, going to the library and checking out those. Choose your own adventure books, you know kind of like their your clients your patient’s life. That’s, it’s like their own adventure. And so, empowering them to really choose their own invention, what’s their health goals and what’s their wellness goals. And then they’re actually taking charge of their own health and you’re a partner a guide rather than a dictator.

Liz:

Absolutely! And people know. I mean, I think they’re, people have their own wisdom. They know best.

Dr. Wong:

Exactly.

Liz:

What it’s, what they want. What is best for them. And it’s wonderful because, I love, I love the kind of the intersection or the overplay between the doctor relationship with the client and then the coach relationship. Because it’s very different. Right. I mean the doctor is going to be be doing that deep dive with a patient into what’s happening inside the body. What’s happening with the cells. What’s happening, you know with the gut and they’re all the labs and the testing and really going into the micro. And then that turns into, okay. Well, how do I take this information right? And the doctor makes suggestions about, you know, lifestyle or procedures or medicines. But then from there, then you zoom on out. And it’s like, okay now. How does this work with my life? What are, how am I going to to actually fit in these changes into my everyday? And so the health coach is kind of there to to to help the client you know zoom out and begin to make the changes in their life. And then we help them zoom out even more. Okay, that’s your life. Well, what is your life in the larger context of your relationships of your work of the society that we live in? Okay, so let’s figure out where do we go from.

Dr. Wong:

I love all those points. And I would just say that it just reminds me of this idea that a lot of times in traditional medicine. We’re going to look at like, okay what’s the patient practitioner relationship? What’s the medical treatment? What are the lab results? And things like that. We’ll have maybe four visits with them year but if you think about it how many days are there any? or at least 365 days 366 if there’s a leap year. Right? So, that means 365 minus four there’s 361 more days that the patient is also, you know. That is really living their life as a person. Righ with their relationships. With the context of what are they? What are they doing every day? When they’re getting up? What’s the joy and purpose? And you know, why are they even alive? Like even, you know. Sometimes, i’ll even say to people. You know, if we had a magic wand. Let’s say you, if you had a magic wand. More, you know, more accurately. And then you could just like wave away all your issues. What would life be worth living for like, what would be the point of all that? And so, I think that does bring it to a larger context. You know, as well. Curious about what you see in terms of the common themes you see arising with clients? Both opportunities and challenges?

Liz:

Yeah. Right now. I see a lot of things that arise around stress. And stress is impact on the quality of life are. And our just, I mean our bodies stress is impact on the body. So, that is always a recurring theme that I see. I think people have a lot of overwhelm. There’s overwhelm in their lives. And they’re kind of dysregulated when it comes to their nervous system. So, they’re always in a minor stress state or most of the time, they’re in a minor stress state. And that has a big impact on their mental well-being, their emotional well-being, their physical well-being. So, I see that as a big as a big theme. And the other big theme that I see is information overload. So, people there’s so much information out there, on the web. And there’s so many things that they can be doing. So, another theme is just you know, helping people to choose one thing. That’s going to make and that generally comes from from their practitioner. Saying, “Hey! This is the thing that really is going to move the needle.” And so helping them. Okay, this is the the category that’s going to move the needle. What’s the one thing that we’re going to do. So, it’s that kind of helping people to sort of focus and not be so overwhelmed.

Dr. Wong:

TMI. Too much information, right? Too many choices, right? Even when you go to the grocery store. I think there’s like over 20,000 choices. Most of which are not real food, right? Like, what if it was just like, what if there was a grocery store that just was called instead of it calling? I won’t say a name of grocery store but you know the real food grocery store and it only had real food. I mean, you’d have like maybe 20 choices or something. You know, if they were in season and stuff like that.

Liz:

So much easier.

Dr. Wong:

What was it? So much easier, so much easier. Anything you could you, could pick up and eat right away didn’t have preservatives and you’d have to kind of just eat it soon or it would go bad. The other thing is that, you know. Stress. I was gonna, I was thinking about this analogy when you’re talking about stress and how it’s pervasive it’s chronic. It’s low-grade. It’s always there. It’s clearly impacting our lives and health and well-being in a very profound way across all of our organ systems, mind, body and spirit. I would say that stress is not only an elephant in the room because that even. That analogy is like too tame. Because usually an elephant, it’s like sitting there. It’s pretty quiet. I mean it’s huge but it’s like pretty quiet. It’s actually more like a gorilla and you know that gorilla might be throwing bananas at us or something like that. You know, that’s kind of what. So, yeah. I guess, going on to. I want to segue into HeartMath in a minute but in the meantime, we can just say. Let’s say we have this gorilla named stress you know or something like that. What is resilience in relationship to, you know, this chronic stress we already have right now. Especially, during COVID but also during probably at any any time in life there’s chronic stress in modern day society? What is resilience? and how can we build that resilience?

Liz:

Yeah. Resilience. Resilience to me really is kind of our ability to be flexible with life. To move with whatever life throws at us. And kind of you know. If you think of it as a person on a surfboard who’s shifting their weight according to the waves. Who’s aware of their surroundings and they are able. They’re flexible. They’re adaptable to life. So, that’s a key component of resiliency. And then it’s also if you fall off the surfboard because you know a wave is going to make you crash at some point or another. And but can you get back up on the on that board and can you, after you get back up on the board. What have you learned? How have you evolved as a person? How, what are you bringing with you from that fall into life to help you become even more flexible going forward even more adaptable? So, that to me is sort of what resiliency is all about.

Dr. Wong:

So, what I’m getting from this and I’m joking a little bit but not completely. Because I love this. But go to Hawaii, learn how to surf, keep on surfing, even if you fall down. And enjoy the water and waves and sunlight. That’s what I’m getting from this or El Salvador. Yes, you’re currently in El Salvador and and you’re somewhat close to the beach. I guess.

Liz:

Yeah. Pretty close and actually in taking some surf lessons.

Dr. Wong:

How’s it going? Yeah.

Liz:

Surfing is hard.

Dr. Wong:

Yes! yes I can probably barely stand on board. But, yeah.

Liz:

But it’s fun. Awesome.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah. I love being out in the sand and of course you know about earthing. And you know getting out there. Connecting to nature. You know, connecting to back, to ourselves really. So, resilience. As you said. You know, stress is not avoidable. It’s something that we all deal with in life. But how do we go with the flow? You know, how do we kind of not necessarily mitigate it but just kind of roll with the, roll with it a bit? So, we’re going to talk a bit more about that very shortly. About HeartMath and nervousness and balance. And how to cultivate resilience there. But one more question about health coaching. How do you see health coaching integrating with the healthcare system overall? What was the role of health, of health coaches, moving forward, you know? We know that they, I think health coaches are going to play a huge critical role in moving forward in health care.

Liz:

Yeah. I mean that’s my hope. My hope is that it becomes way more mainstream and way more common. And just it becomes part of health care in general. In a real established way. So, that you know, when you go to a doctor you are part of this team. That includes a health coach. And so you know, like I talked about health. Really well-being is an everyday occurrence right? It’s a moment-to-moment to moment choice. And so health coping, health coaching can help people. Like you said, like in the other 362 days of the year when they’re not with a practitioner. So, I really hope that it becomes something that’s covered by insurance. Something that is readily available to people. And that is kind of just a part of what we do.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah. And going back to the surfing analogy. I believe that health coach is going to be leading. The leading wave surfing into this healthcare 2.0 here. I really feel like it’s the future of healthcare. So we are doing that to some degree here at CIH. We’re trying to figure out all the logistics of that. But really glad that you and Toni are here to do some health coaching and kind of being the forefront of that change. So, thank you so much for that. And you know we know that again. Like just like you said before. You know, you go to the doctor. You go to healthcare practitioner. You get a treatment plan but that treatment plan doesn’t happen in a vacuum right. This is where it goes back to like where are the relationships? Where’s the the coaching? The accountability? The partnership? Like all that. And then, what’s the larger context of their life that’s something that health coaching really put, you know, put into context with with that patient? Yeah.

Liz:

Absolutely.

Dr. Wong:

So, let’s get on to the scientific part of the program with math rather HeartMath, I would say. And first, let’s just go really broad what is HeartMath Liz?

Liz:

HeartMath. Great. So Heart Math is a tool. It’s a very practical tool that brings in the intuition of your heart to help you basically to regulate your autonomic nervous system. So, that you feel better it’s kind of a nutshell.

Dr. Wong:

And you know, most people’s hearts there are some people with dexter cardio. But most people’s hearts are slightly on the left you know. Right here a lot of times. In HeartMath, we’re going to look at sort of heart center breathing. Right in the middle of the chest like kind of the heart chakra area. But it, the heart is really not only an organ but it’s also like an organ that’s beating. I mean, but it’s also a neuronal you know system. Is part of the nervous system in a way. Can you talk a little bit more about the importance of the heart both not only physically but also emotionally as well?

Liz:

Absolutely! So, yes. The heart as you said. I mean it does so many things. It pumps blood but it also has its own mini brain inside. It’s got a whole lot of neurons that are that are connected inside and that are constantly speaking to our brain. So, our brain is sending messages to our heart but actually there are more messages coming from the heart through the nervous system to the brain feeding it information about our body and the the heart also sends information to the rest of the body. And so, it’s a big communication hub and that i think is super cool. Because we can really harness the power of the heart to help us coordinate the systems of our body. So, that’s a big part of Heart Math is getting into coherence. So, that’s when your heart and your mind and your body, your emotions are all in alignment are all working together instead of kind of against one another.

Dr. Wong:

Got it! So, this HeartMath. Mind body technique about when was it sort of started, you know. How did it kind of get into the research? And things like that. And then how did you get introduced to HeartMath yourself?

Liz:

Sure. It’s been around for over 20 years. They’ve been doing research on the duck children. It was the founder and with a with a group of other scientists and they’ve been studying the heart for years and years. And I got interested in it through my coaching course, actually. It came up. It was you know, an aside that one of the, our teachers talked about, “Oh, there’s this technique” and it really caught my ear. And so I went to their website and I started learning about it and then I experienced it myself. And again it’s always that when you try it on yourself and to see if it works. It worked for me and I thought this is something that I think people it’s very easy to do. And it’s powerful and there’s a lot of science behind it. It’s grounded in a lot of studies so it’s validated. And yeah, that’s what made me want to become a certified practitioner myself.

Dr. Wong:

I love even the name of it. The unity of right and left brain like HeartMath. You know, it’s just a very amazing synergy there. I did learn about it in college and I tried some of the techniques like freeze frame and cut through and all this stuff. And it totally worked you know, for some issues I was having that time. And it was just like “Oh wow this is something real is happening here like in my body physiologically”. But even more than that. I know it feels good like intuitively. So, you know, kept on kind of got put on the back burner with med school and all that but then eventually it was like getting back to more integrative health practices and learning it was like everyone was talking about HeartMath. It was definitely one of those things that people were talking about and you know ways to support so how can we use our you know. How to use in your practice HeartMath to support a client’s well-being? And just in general, how does HeartMath support our well-being?

Liz:

Yeah, absolutely! So, usually I work with heart math generally when when people

have a lot of stress in their lives. Which is as I mentioned pretty much.

Dr. Wong:

That’s everyone right? Could be everyone.

Liz:

Basically. There’s just so much stress and just modern, our modern lifestyle. And so I think one of the really great things about HeartMath is that it helps you to raise your body intelligence. Right? I mean we have IQ, we have EQ emotional intelligence and then there’s BQ there’s this body intelligence. And I think the BQ, the body intelligence is the the kind of the peace that most people are not strong with meaning. That we are so much in our heads all the time that we’re not really paying attention to and listening to what is happening in our bodies. What’s our body doing we think you know. We’re so dualistic. Where we think oh the mind and then the body when actually it’s all attached it’s one thing it’s the mind. It’s mind body and so we stop paying attention to the heart, to the gut, to the legs, to the you know our kidneys. To our breath, to our lungs, to our muscles. We’re not listening into all of these other ways that we can know ourselves. And when you do HeartMath. You start listening into your heart. You start feeling it be in your chest and then you start breathing in a way that changes the rhythm of your heart. So, that the heart begins to send a different message to your body and instead of moving, instead of going from head down. Which is how we always work right. We’re so mind dominant. This is one way to go from body up, body out. And so, I totally forgot what your original question was but.

Dr. Wong:

Yes. Well. I think you just answered it. How do we use HeartMath to support well being?

But first, I would like to say a joke. Since I thought of this joke when you’re talking. Well first, the serious part. The science. So, of course, you know we talk about top down but just like you had said you know very correctly. Right. The hardest sending more messages up to the brain than the brain of the heart. So, it actually makes more intellectual sense. But I mean it feels really good too. To send messages from the heart up when we’re doing HeartMath type of breathing. You know, influencing our brain now and so really clearly integrating the heart and brain together. And really having a full expression of our lives you know. In a way it seems like that’s a way to support a well-being now. Now, the joke is I was just you know. I grew up in the south. So, I will have to say this it’s a kind of southern joke but. We have uh you know. I guess there’s IQ and EQ which is an intelligent and emotional quotient then BQI. Had not heard of that’s a great. The body you know, body quotient. Getting ground into the body having body intelligence. But I thought about DQ. Because my dad used to own a restaurant and then there was a Dairy Queen right next to it. So, DQ with the blizzards and you know stuff like that. So, I do not recommend eating daily ice cream or anything like that. This is not a part of the official CIH podcast here. But DQ is another acronym if you need to remember some of these things you can if you want to. Don’t stress out about DQ or you know whatever then work on HeartMath and the BQ the body quotient. So, all right. So HeartMath can support our well-being and in many ways. And just to give the listeners here a few way. You know, kind of more specific ways. How does our nervous system? Because the nervous system will include both the brain you know and the heart. Because there’s that connection between those two but how does our nervous system impact our health overall? And then maybe maybe we can add some things about you know different organ systems or people are interested in that.

Liz:

Yeah. Sure. So our nervous system impacts everything because our nervous system touches all the parts of our bodies. I mean the nervous system goes to our to our heart to it’s you know it innervates everything down to our guts.

Dr. Wong:

It’s kind of like the internet, right? What if the internet was down like we wouldn’t even be able to have this session here or you know telemedicine or anything like that so?

Liz:

Absolutely! It’s the communication system. It’s the network. Yeah. That’s our nervous system. So it impacts everything. So, really I think there are a few things about the nervous system. One is that it go this, goes back to BQ. Just in being really in, having that body intelligence right. And so often, we don’t actually realize what’s happening within our bodies and so the messages that are coming through our nervous system we’re unaware of most of the time. So, for example when we get into these stressed states. We don’t. We’re not actually registering them because we’re still in the in the mind. We’re not registering where it’s showing up physically for us, right? And that’s an issue. Because when we become more intelligent in our bodies and really say “Ah, okay. I feel it. I feel stress in my chest, I feel stress in my, I’m sweating or I am clenching my belly”. Once we begin to feel it in the body, we can use that communication system that the nervous system to from the body to calm down the mind to calm down all of it. Right? So, when we become more body intelligent we can start to really pay attention to what’s going on with our nervous system and where we’re feeling tension, we’re feeling anger, we’re feeling loneliness, we’re feeling stuck. And then, we can tap into that feeling in the body and begin to ask it. What does it need you know? Do I need to relax my shoulders? Do I need to breathe differently? Do I need to move around? And that sends a message through the nervous system moving us out of that fight-or-flight state and moving us over into a calm and coherent state of being.

Dr. Wong:

Would you say we’re going from kind of an unconscious or subconscious kind of state where we’re not aware of our body to a more conscious state? When we can actually do something about it kind of like we’re driving a car on autopilot versus if we’re actually driving the car. Being aware of the speed limit and if we’re going too slow or too fast or at anormal speed.

Liz:

Yes. That’s a really great! That’s a really great way to say it. I think that gets to the heart of it. Is we’re just kind of running around in our minds on autopilot.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah. And then, if we, if we’re doing that you know, 75 miles an hour and we don’t know it and all of a sudden we get pulled over by the cop or something, right? Then that’s kind of like we don’t want to get to that state. Where, we’re so you know chronically stressed and we’re not aware of our bodies and minds and you know the autonomic nervous system is dysregulated and we don’t want a serious health event to be the thing that is going to stop us.

Liz:

Yeah, like that’s the cop.

Dr. Wong:

Like that’s the cop.

Liz:

Is the, yeah. A heart attack.

Dr. Wong:

Right. So. And we know that like type a personality and different emotional dysregulations chronically over time like anger and all these things are associated with increased risk of myocardial infarction which is heart attack. So, this is where some of the pieces kind of the puzzles between the mind and body and health kind of come into play here. And HeartMath can really help you avoid that speeding ticket but more importantly like the the cop just pulling you over completely. So, your body. You know, continues to function normally versus getting shut down. Alright. So the nervous system is the internet the network to the system impacts all the organs entire health. And we, I think you, had touched on this a lot. Here so far, as you know the themes that you see with clients in the nervous system. So, really even if people are you know, don’t feel stressed. I mean now we’re in this global pandemic you know, or are we kind of saying we’re almost like noticing a lot of times people’s autonomic nervous and balance is is off at times for sure like everyone pretty much is the universal issue we’re all dealing with.

Liz:

For sure. I think there’s. I’ve noticed that there’s a lot of disconnection between our minds and our body when it comes to stress. Some of it is that we’re so used to living in a mildly stressed state that it feels normal to us.

Dr. Wong:

Like it’s normal to be in this stress state. It’s normal to not feel optimal, right? So, yeah.

Liz:

Don’t even really feel it anymore, right? Our necks are always tight or that are that we’re breathing only in our in our upper chest or that you know so many so many things. We just don’t even really notice it there’s a disconnection there and that is is super, super problematic.

Dr. Wong:

I feel like we need built-in wellness. Like little reminders that are like automatic. So, either getting an ergonomic desk so that you automatically start to drop those traps you know. Drop the sems, getting some built-in timers. Even like, to do yoga or HeartMath or meditation. Like, so that there’s built-in wellness you know in a way like if the system is set up to and to perpetuate this chronic low-level stress low-grade stress we have to find ways to ameliorate that in a way to balance that out with built-in wellness techniques. So, I’m curious, if you know, you’ve found yourself personally? or What can people do at home to support their nervous system to have that balance between or to create built-in wellness? I would say.

Liz:

Yeah. That’s a really great question. Yes. So, I think building a life around health and well-being is super important. So, kind of designing your life and your space taking into body into mind the needs of the body right. And so, creating rituals in your day when you wake up. What are you intentionally going to do to kind of set the day? For me, I like to do HeartMath and meditation in the morning. But it could just be stretching, it could be taking a moment to connect into the body. Feel it. Feel the body and to feel the way you’re breathing. Feel the way you know is your chest, is your jaw clenched, is it relaxed? A movement is a big way to remember. So, kind of creating these have these routines in our lives I think is really important. And then, also creating those reminders for ourselves and whether or not it’s something on the phone that you know, “ding ding!” on the phone you. Have a reminder hey breathe. That’s a big thing or it could be also attaching some kind of wellness thing. Practice to something that you already do. Like for example, when you brush your teeth. You something, you do every day. What can you attach to brushing your teeth that is going to you know, bring you into balance? And that could be that when right before I brush my teeth I’m going to stretch or right before I have my morning cup of coffee, I am going to do some leg lifts or move my body or breathe or take a moment to list. To say five things I’m grateful for. So, if we can we can kind of build these things and attach them to already existing habits that’s one way to kind of make them more easily remembered. And then the other thing you know. As we kind of do that zoom out thing. I’m hopeful that as more and more people become aware of how important it is to build lives around wellness then it becomes not something that we have to remember to do. That we have to. That it’s like weird and extraordinary to do these things that is just part of the way people live their lives. Like at a meeting at work everyone stretches first or everyone takes a moment to collect their breath you know. These things start to become super normal and it’s just how we all live.

Dr. Wong:

Part of the culture, yeah. It’s amazing vision, yeah. We’re definitely working towards that here. And I think you know it’s little by little. You know, building it one step at a time building that wellness culture. But you know, it is life is a chooser and adventure. But the thing is that we are our own authors which is really interesting you know. We can choose like you said, which wellness practices we want to do, when we want to do them things like that. I feel like the important thing is that. We all just like keep on trying to do them on a daily basis and try to be wellness you know in a way as opposed to doing as well. I wanted to ask you about that actually, what do you feel like? Because, I mean and our culture is very achievement oriented you know. It’s very much like you know, what do you do for a living and like how many hours do you work or if you’re retired like what kind of volunteer work are you doing you know. What do you do during the day like everyone has to be busy? And there’s this idea in chinese medicine that the chinese character for busy literally means heart killing, right? If you just look at the chinese characters it literally means like the heart is getting killed. So, that implies that a really busy person or overly busy person their heart is suffering, their heart is getting like squeezed from all the busyness you know. They can’t can’t even breathe because there’s like too much stuff going on. So, curious your thoughts about you know is there a dichotomy or you know what’s the sort of relationship between doing and go and being? How can we maintain that healthy balance between doing? Which we obviously have to do certain things in life right doing and being.

Liz:

Yeah. Oh that’s so great! And I think this kind of talks too. To our, as a culture especially western culture. Our preference for the mind, our preference for everything that’s intellectual that’s doing that’s creating in that way. And our sort of, we kind of ignore the fact that we are that bodies in nature. Yeah right. And that’s the being piece is that we, who we are? What we are? We are, what are we being as humans? And so I think, when we come back to the body and come back to who we are as a really fully embodied and integrated whole person that’s when the being can really support the doing. So, the being is you, I mean hopefully we are doing as an outcome of our being. I love that not this yeah, you know we forget that the being comes first and who we be supports what we do.

Dr. Wong:

The flower blooms from the seed and all of that. Yes, yes.

Liz:

And we kind of have it the other way around was, who we do? What we do? Is who you know people conflate that without with our being. Oh well, that “this person has done X, Y and Z and that’s who they are”. Ah, that’s an identity yes and that’s things that happen in the world. But, who are they like? Who are, what are they like as a being? Yeah, does that make sense?

Dr. Wong:

Yeah. It does. I remember. I just thinking back to my residency days and I had a professor talk to me about like you know, who I am and all this stuff. And I was talking about, “Oh, I’m in school you know, I’m obviously studying you know, medicine”. He’s like, “no, who are you really?”

I was like, “Oh, I like to play jazz music. I’m a musician.” He’s like, “Ah! that’s the thing you know”. So, it’s the being. It’s what’s kind of enlivening and nourishing our souls really in a way. And that inner being like you said is going to support the doing and it’s going to make that doing in a way much more conscious and much more fruitful much more helpful to be of service to the highest good. You know, so. Well thank you for that amazing answer and conversation here. And we have some fun closing questions that we ask all our guests Liz. So, we’re gonna go for some fun questions here. But, do you have a morning routine and if so what do you like to do in the morning? I think you kind of answered that a little bit but.

Liz:

Yeah. Well I do HeartMath and a combo HeartMath and meditation. Yeah. I general every morning. I love to draw. I do sun salutations and I usually do some kind of aerobic or weight training in the morning. I like my morning kind of routine and another big thing for me for mornings is snuggling with my kids. I wake them up, I snuggle with them, I connect with them in the morning and my husband too.

Dr. Wong:

Like that’s a big connection. This is super important for me. Yeah, family connections. I agree. Question about the, for you. For I have a question about for my morning routine too. But for everyone listening to yoga, meditation, exercise. What is your, because I’ve been trying to experiment with this and try to you know figure out what works best here. Do you have a particular preference as to what works better for you? You know as a general idea of those three things you know. If you did like yoga, meditation, exercise. Is there a certain order that’s better to do them in “wow” that you found it to be better?

Liz:

No, not really. For me personally. I kind of like to be a little fluid. I don’t like to be super rigid. And yeah, I tried all of these things in. But it really depends on the day and again I feel into my body. What does my body want? What does my body need? What like, what’s coming up for me that I want to do first? And sometimes it’s like I have an idea that I want to get out on paper or have something that needs to be written and sometimes I wake up and i have a crook in my neck and my body wants to stretch and move. And sometimes, I just really crave first hugging my kids like. So, I try to listen in and be like that surfer on the surfboard and be flexible go with the flow.

Dr. Wong:

I love that! Yeah. That’s the best advice yes. Well, thank you so much. And what book or podcast are you enjoying the most right now?

Liz:

Oh. I am a podcast junkie! This could be a whole another podcast of Liz’s favorite podcast. I think yeah. But some of the ones that I love, that I, that I’m into lately. So, I love Rich Roll’s podcasts. He’s good podcast. Is good Daniel Thorson emerge is good. Anything by Daniel Schmachtenberger, I love. He doesn’t have a podcast but he does a lot of podcasts, oh my gosh.

Dr. Wong:

You have to email me all these recommendations we can put that out there. Thank you so much. And what do you do every day to cultivate joy? It sounds like that’s kind of, kind of baked into your to your day. But, what are your kind of main key kind of advice? Or your own personal experience with that?

Liz:

Yeah. Joy. Gosh, I love to learn. I’m really curious and so that’s a big part of joy for me. Is going down rabbit holes and learning and I already mentioned it. But my family is a huge source of joy for me. I also love dance. I dance every day. I put music on and I like always dancing.

Dr. Wong:

What’s your favorite types of music if you have different types?

Liz:

Oh too many. I mean, I love the throwback. So, like for my college days. Oh yeah, like with the plans around.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah. That’s awesome! That’s great. Well thank you so much Liz for being on this podcast. It’s been so much fun and a lot of learning here and a lot of joy here too. So, how can listeners learn more about you and work with you?

Liz:

Well, through CIH you can contact me through the portal. I have a website, it’s interflourish.com. You can always check that out. But yeah, this has been a pleasure. Thank you so much.

Dr. Wong:

Thank you Liz for coming on and thank you so much for taking the time to listen today. If you join enjoy this conversation please take a moment to leave us a review and like us. It helps us to reach more listeners helps our podcast kind of have our mission of increasing you know, access to the global community here on integrative health and wellness. And don’t forget to subscribe so you don’t miss our next conversations. And thank you so much Liz for being with us today.

Liz:

Thank you.