Episode 7: Kari Willford, LMT on Using Myofascial Release

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SPEAKERS: Dr. Andrew Wong, Kari Willford, LMT

Welcome to the Capital Integrative Health podcast, a podcast dedicated to transforming the consciousness around what it means to be healthy and understanding the root causes of both disease and wellness. I am Dr. Andrew Wong, co-founder of Capital Integrative Health, an integrative practice committed to expanding access to holistic root cause medicine to the global community.

Today we are joined by Kari Willford. Kari is a licensed massage therapist and an expert level Johns Barnes Myofacial release practitioner who has been with CIH from the very beginning. Kari has an additional background in personal training and yoga. She helps her clients with many conditions including chronic pain, headaches, TMJ, fatigue, anxiety and much more. We are excited to bring you a conversation today about how bodywork and integrating bodywork into your care plan can uplevel your wellness.

Dr. Wong:

Alright. Welcome Kari to the podcast and great to have you on. Thank you.

Kari:

Thank you for having me.

Dr. Wong:

Yes. We want to first talk about how you got started with working at CIH? How did you kind of know about this place? We know that you also know Liz Baer. How do you know Liz and everything?

Kari:

Yes. Liz and I worked together in a local spa and she had this dream of creating a collaborative wellness center and we worked together for a couple years and I believe she met you during that time.

Dr. Wong:

And when I met her, I knew right away that she is awesome and then she told me about you, and i knew that from knowing her and her being awesome. I knew that you’d also be very amazing too and that’s been totally true. So, thank you. It’s great having you here for you know. It’s been about seven years now. We’ve been here at CIH. It’s been been pretty amazing kind of moved from different places now expanded here at Sangamore. Tell us how you got into bodywork a bit first of all. Maybe what is bodywork for the listeners? Because I think bodywork can mean different things. Different people might think about massage. Myofacial release we can get into that bit more but just what is bodywork and then how you got into it, I think.

Kari:

Sure. Bodywork is just a hands-on technique and it can mean massage or it can be more of a just tissue manipulation. I specialize in myofascial release. The John Barnes approach. So that’s a hands-on technique without any oils or lotions and I take the tissue into a stretch or compression. So, I’m pressing into the tissue for a sustained period of time.

Dr. Wong:

Okay and massage typically does use more oils and lotions, I would say.

Kari:

Yes.

Dr. Wong:

Got it. Okay. How did you get into bodywork? and then specifically, how did you meet John Barnes and get into that specific subspecialty of MFR?

Kari:

Sure. So, my background is in fitness and health. I taught health and physical education in a high school system for a couple of years and i knew i didn’t want to continue with that. So, I had explored different areas of personal training. I also did that for a couple years. My sister actually was the one that to get me into bodywork she was also going to school at that time. She kept on talking about it was very intriguing to me I’ve had a lifelong interest in fitness and the body and nutrition even as a teenager. So, after a couple of years of practicing traditional massage techniques in a spa setting, I was having my own aches and pains and then the therapist that I would seek out help. He was trained in myofascial release and John Barnes approach.

Dr. Wong:

And that was in Arizona, right?

Kari:

Correct. So after my first couple of classes. I knew that this was for me. This was what I wanted to learn and what I wanted to give to people.

Dr. Wong:

If you don’t mind me asking. What did you feel during that time you were recovering and healing on your own with that technique with the practitioner helping you? You know, how is that different than say a traditional massage kind of therapy?

Kari:

Yeah. It was quite different actually. It was more about maintaining alignment. It helped me heal emotional pain I was going through. Through some emotional issues at that time and I had a lot of stress and anxiety and depression as well. As a lot of physical back pain just from the repetitive nature of my work. So, it helped me free up a lot of tension.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah, and freeing up a lot of tension. Also, it sounds like from what you’re saying. It frees up some bandwidth as well physically, but also mentally emotionally, spiritually.

Kari:

Yes! That’s a great way to put it.

Dr. Wong:

Beautiful aspect of this integrative modality called myofascial release is that it’s this combination of really the body work but we also know that since the body and mind are connected and really are synergistically united. You know, there’s a lot of you know. I think one of the quotes that I often and I don’t know who said this but this idea of the issue is in the tissue right? So moving that maybe you taught me that.

Kari:

I think it was way before my time.

Dr. Wong:

Okay. Nothing is original right? But someone taught us this thing right? So, you know. If tissue gets stretched and released, and the tension is released and the alignment is maintained then then a lot of times the issues in the tissues whether they be physical or mental emotional spiritual can can get more balanced is that.

Kari:

Absolutely. Then our energy can flow smoothly wherever we’re putting our intention. We can put more of our energy that way versus trying to maintain the other states that we’re in.

Dr. Wong:

And she kind of reminds me of acupuncture. A couple of parallels there is that your sister kind of introduced you a bit to bought some bodywork and my sister also introduced me to acupuncture and she took the acupuncture course before I did. So, then I was like, this is something really interesting. She’s like you got to do this and it was amazing. So, and then you know with acupuncture too there is this idea of of stuck energy or stucchi and you know you have the acupuncture, acupressure points that then can relieve that so it sounds like it may be are there any parallels or similarities there.

Kari:

Oh yes, absolutely. We’re looking for adhesions or restrictions and it’s the same the energy can’t flow through the body where it, whether it’s physical mental or emotional quite the same.

Dr. Wong:

I kind of want to take a little bit of a forest view about body work for a second. Because right now, we’re in the covid pandemic still. It is hopefully you know, thankfully cases are declining but there’s still cases and everything and we’re wearing masks and we’re also social distancing and you know, hopefully people are being safe and staying healthy and not getting sick and stuff. But, one of the things that i’ve noticed during the pandemic is that people have lost a sense of touch. People lost a sense of like touching other people, family, friends even neighbors. People you might shake hands with normally. It’s just like you’re going to say hi to them like that right. So, how important is touch to our overall health and well-being?

Kari:

I think it’s essential. Yes, as humans we need that we need hugs. We need community, we need just to be with one another.

Dr. Wong:

Right. And even you know, I guess there’s different, there’s like five or even maybe six senses right? There’s more sense. But of those senses you know touch is certainly at least in my opinion, one of the most important if not the most important. Just from a visceral perspective to know that you’re connected to others that you’re, you know, when you touch the ground you’re connected to the earth, whether your feet are connecting your hands are connecting. We touch someone else it’s like you’re connecting with that person on a physical level but also an energetic level.

Kari:

Absolutely. I mean look at babies like they have to be held and they have to be nurtured in that way to to grow.

Dr. Wong:

And I believe that you know. We obviously grow and evolve as humans but certain primal aspects certain basic aspects I think are continuing or continual needs throughout life including the need to touch and be touched and to kind of feel that connection with others.

Kari:

Absolutely.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah. That’s great. Thank you. Well, in terms of bodywork or other aspects of your professional life. What do you enjoy most about what you do?

Kari:

What I enjoy most is seeing the light return to people. You know seeing them understanding that they’re capable of healing themselves and cultivating that awareness within. I’m just a facilitator. I help out, but the client on the table really does all the work you know. They they feel into their body they feel the stuck areas and they come back home basically. I really enjoy watching people heal.

Dr. Wong:

And I want to take a deep dive now that’s such an important statement is you know in traditional healthcare sort of this traditional medical model. It’s very external driven. It’s like you know you go to a doctor you go to a prac, any practitioner and they’ll give you some external treatment to take and it’s almost like a very passive way of kind of health care. You know, which is needed for a lot of cases. I talked about this a bit with Liz too. But you know, activating that innate wise healer inside it sounds like it’s what is what body working in there is doing which is amazing.

Kari:

Yes it is.

Dr. Wong:

How long does that take for people to you know activate? Probably different time frames for different people.

Kari:

Absolutely. Everybody’s completely unique depending on their story you know history they’ve had and many people have been on this healing journey and have tried many many different modalities. So, they’re very familiar or have healed pieces of the puzzle but not the entire thing. And some people are brand new to healing so they have to gain that trust within themselves.

Dr. Wong:

And it’s not a linear road it sounds either.

Kari:

No, it’s completely chaotic.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah, chaotic circular. And so the other thing is the patients may be a virtue here right? Because if someone’s having a chronic issue, chronic illness or chronic pain and you know hopefully they understand that it’s not a a linear road, it’s not like a very time limited like you’re gonna be healed in exact amount of time because it’s really about their own body mind and spirits.

Kari:

Right.

Dr. Wong:

And how long that takes them? Which is sort of not totally predictable?

Kari:

Correct. Not totally predictable and once you start healing, some other things you know it really is a puzzle in my mind. Some things influence others and we don’t necessarily know where the connections lie you know.

Dr. Wong:

I remember reading something about how the body is our best friend. You know, it’s like the body is telling us through symptoms right? Because when we think about traditional medicine let’s say the symptoms are always you know, let’s suppress the symptoms. Let’s actually not let them say their peace even though what they’re actually trying to do is help us. So, what is your view of symptoms as a whole? and what are they saying to us?

Kari:

So, if we can if we can listen to you know the gentle symptoms. The tightness, the tension maybe. The pain before it becomes inflammation or before it becomes chronic or before something severe happens. Ideally that’s the best case scenario you know.

Dr. Wong:

Catch it early.

Kari:

Catch it early, of course. And it’s always easier to be in a state of prevention versus fighting off something.

Dr. Wong:

So, we’d rather listen to a whisper or someone in conversation versus screaming.

Kari:

Absolutely, okay. And so what do we need to do, you know, for that we need to create a space to listen to our body take a walk or do some breathing or meditation practice.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah. And going back to the definition of body work. I mean we could we can even say let me know if this makes sense. But you know bodywork could be things that people do with a practitioner like yourself, could it be also things they do with themselves like at home.

Kari:

Absolutely, yes. Because myofascial self-care just can be a lengthened stretch. So, I think traditionally we’ve been taught you know stretch for 10 seconds or 30 seconds. But the myofascial techniques, The Barnes approach myofascial technique is to hold for 90 seconds to two minutes and beyond so similar to Yin yoga.

Dr. Wong:

90 seconds to two minutes, got it.

Kari:

That’s when the start of the release actually happens. So being in a stretch not the end range of a stretch but just where we’re starting to feel the stretch and then as we soften and hold the stretch for a longer period of time then we can feel it deeper and then we can take the stretch further into the range of motion versus starting at end range.

Dr. Wong:

So, the end range would be what what time period?

Kari:

Well, we don’t know if we get to end.

Dr. Wong:

Okay. I just, i mean, the start of the end range is like 90 seconds to two minutes?

Kari:

No. We don’t want to start at an end range. We just want to start at where we first begin to feel the stretch and hold that for a period of 90 seconds to two minutes for the releases to start happening. So, people can definitely take care of themselves by spending spending a lengthened amount of time in stretches or using a foam roller or a ball with the same principle just softening in versus forcing or pushing. Does that make sense?

Dr. Wong:

Yeah, definitely. Just to go back to the forest view a bit on on. That just in case listeners not sure about this. What is myofascial release and what is fascia? Let’s start start with some basics there.

Kari:

Sure. Let’s start with fascia. Fascia is connective tissue it’s from the top of our head all the way to the bottom of our feet.

Dr. Wong:

I love that word by the way.

Kari:

What? Fascia?

Dr. Wong:

It just sounds really cool.

Kari:

Yes it does. It’s a continuous tissue. It’s in between organs. It separates cells but it’s one organ.

Dr. Wong:

Throughout the whole body.

Kari:

Yes.

Dr. Wong:

Got it. Okay. Is there any part of the body where there’s not fascia?

Kari:

No.

Dr. Wong:

No. Amazing! And of course the skin is also on the whole body but the skin and the fascia are different, would you say?

Kari:

I wouldn’t say. I think you can have adhesions all the way up to the epidermis.

Dr. Wong:

To the epidermis, okay. Yeah, because I know that a lot of people have skin issues and a lot of people are you know wondering, how they can have healthier skin? Would you say that helping the the fascia is another way to potentially help skin health?

Kari:

If skin health is, if the issues are being exacerbated by lack of lymph flow or blood flow. I think that opening up the fascia can be helpful.

Dr. Wong:

Great. Then what is myofascial release? As you know, a way to treat the fascia dysfunction.

Kari:

Myofascial release, again. The Barnes approach is hands-on approach with no oil. It’s a sustained stretch or compression into the tissue. Again, I use 90 second to two minutes at least to start the release. We look for misalignment and try to achieve balance.

Dr. Wong:

Got it. Then let’s, I think this is a good time, a good segue to talk about John Barnes since this is a very expert in the John Barnes approach. First of all, who is John Barnes? How did he come up with the specific MFR technique himself and all of that?

Kari:

John Barnes is a physical therapist from Pennsylvania. He has two treatment centers. One in Millbourne, Pennsylvania and one in Sedona, Arizona. He’s been doing this technique for I believe close to 50 years. He also discovered this through his own healing and recognized that compression in his injury made it feel better and changed the surface underneath the pressure. So, he started with his own healing and then applied it to his practice.

Dr. Wong:

A lot of breakthroughs happen with personal experience, personal healing and sounds. Like that’s the case for John as well.

Kari:

Yes, absolutely!

Dr. Wong:

And you as well, it sounds like with getting involved with MRF. So, the fascia is really going up and down. The whole body, the entire. Like all the organs etc. How does myofascial release treat the whole body? and I guess one of the questions I have is, if you does it or is it just more local in that situation?

Kari:

I think it can be local but i think it’s rare that it would be just a local treatment versus you know. If you’re wearing a sweater, you can imagine a knit sweater and you’re pulling on one aspect of it, it’s going to change the the global perspective of all the tissue.

Dr. Wong:

Because the fascia is communicating it’s like a network. I guess yeah, got it. Okay.I just remember that from acupuncture training. It’s like, it’s sort of like. If you, one area of acupressure, acupuncture it’ll kind of affect the entire network in a way. You might, you know someone might have pain in one area but my understanding is you could have, you know the root cause of it be there locally but it could also be somewhere distant and causing pain in that area that may not be the same area, that someone might feel exactly covered.

Kari:

Yes, exactly! And that’s why we as therapists have to always look holistically.

Dr. Wong:

Got it. And what conditions do you find myofascial release to be helpful? for although it seems like if it can treat the whole body, you know there could be many conditions for that.

Kari:

Absolutely! Back pain. neck pain, TMJ even anxiety, depression, fatigue. Any type of joint pain.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah. I mean the fascia sounds like the one of the master, you know, organs of communication where the artery is the lymph. You know, flow the nerves are there so if that is dysfunctional then really any system, any organ or any system would also be potentially dysfunctional.

Kari:

Yes, exactly!

Dr. Wong:

Affects everything. So, like you said. I mean the things that are more intuitive things like sciatica and neck pain and back pain and headaches and that kind of makes sense. From a very visceral physical level but then these other issues like, anxiety or depression and emotional issues it sounds like that that also can be affected by the myofascial release. Do we think it’s from more of an energetic unblocking or is there some other mechanism there?

Kari:

Yes. If emotions aren’t fully processed and we’re still holding on to that stress, myofascial release can provide a way out of that.

Dr. Wong:

How long are the sessions usually with clients?

Kari:

Typically 60 minutes. I occasionally do 90 minutes sessions.

Dr. Wong:

60 to 90 minutes. Okay and then is there anything? Because I know with a lot of treatments it’s sort of like people just kind of show up. You know, they’re getting the table. You treat them. Let’s say is there anything they need, people need to do to prepare for a session? an MFR session?

Kari:

It’s always best to be in a good mindset. Okay, taking a few breaths, slowing down. It takes a little bit longer to get in the treatment. If someone is still working in their mind or still in traffic.

Dr. Wong:

So, put the briefcase down. Put the other issues down. Put any sort of stressful situations. Just kind of let it go over these. Put it in the backpack, set it down. That kind of thing. Got it.

Kari:

So. I always start off with doing a couple breaths anyways and letting people come into the room and then come into their body and then settle into the table anyways.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah. I mean traffic can be very disturbing to the nervous system right now. That’s right, especially in the DC area, right?

Kari:

Yeah, it’s never ending.

Dr. Wong:

Yes and then, how do you find unreleased emotions or trauma showing up in your work with clients? This is really important point here you know, as humans I think we’re all subjected to trauma.

Kari:

You know, it’s just a part of life. So, it shows up all the time. It’s not always massive or violent type of trauma. But I mean we’re living through a global pandemic so it’s present every session.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah and I guess the other question is that, a lot of people are very vociferous. They’re very expressive about their emotions. They like to talk it out, other people are not so. I’m wondering you know, in terms of trauma or unreleased emotions. Is it better to to talk it out to express it with people whether it’s a friend a therapist? or is it better you know some people actually hold it in?

Kari:

Sure.

Dr. Wong:

And try to process it internally. Have you found one way to be better than another? It’s kind of depend on the person.

Kari:

I think it’s completely unique to the person. Whatever is the need is in the moment you know. I think we all have different ways of processing it.

Dr. Wong:

As long as it can be effective and it can actually be processed.

Kari:

Absolutely.

Dr. Wong:

It sounds like it is. We don’t want to let it just sit there either way.

Kari:

Because that’s what contributes to the stress.

Dr. Wong:

Right. So, if people do it externally or internally. As long as they’re processing it there’s you know, some value in that in terms of healing.

Kari:

Yes, absolutely!

Dr. Wong:

Got it. And then obviously. After a session then, well I think some people may ask this. Is there a certain number of sessions that you would recommend for someone a series or it kind of depends on each person, each situation?

Kari:

It’s very like a very basic principle of giving myofascial release. Three to five sessions but I think that’s very general you know it depends on what’s going on completely.

Dr. Wong:

Okay and you know. We are at an integrative center here and amazing to have you here working alongside. How do you see bodywork overall? You know, integrating with healthcare in general? and how you know fitting in there?

Kari:

I think it’s a crucial part of healthcare.

Dr. Wong:

Yes. Great.

Kari:

I think bodywork can create awareness within our own bodies and awareness to what is really going on and that’s empowering you know. It can be used to empower people and that’s what extremely helpful for people to heal these chronic conditions as empowerment within.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah. I feel like there’s something that is very epidemic nowadays and probably throughout most of recorded human history. Which is overthinking syndrome. We have these thoughts and emotions that tend to often dominate us to your lives. So getting back into the body is actually something that’s very real, very solid in a way.

Kari:

Absolutely! Very grounding and centering. Yeah. And finding ourselves.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah. It’s a great treatment for anxiety for sure. But I think you know a lot of us do have these kind of thoughts and I read somewhere that there’s 60,000 thoughts floating through our head every day.

Kari:

Yeah. And how many of them are the same ones over and over exactly. It’s a very high percentage so I find that’s a great point you know again with the grounding and reducing anxiety is just. We don’t remember to stay in the present moment and that you know we’re okay in the moment.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah. Rather than looking to the past or the future and that kind of thing. Right. And then is there anything people can do at home to take care of their bodies some sort of self-care for myofascial at least.

Kari:

Oh yes, absolutely. Well again with the breath work. I think that’s very important. Doing some gentle stretches, taking their time in each stretch and taking time to breathe in each stretch listening into the body and feeling what’s tight, never forcing the body to go into a deeper stretch than what feels right.

Dr. Wong:

Are there any specific stretches that you recommend? For say, neck or back pain or is it kind of more you know people kind of feel intuitively, what they might be having a stretch created from their movement in other specific things?

Kari:

I think that’s a great idea. Stretch created by movement and again with going really slow into it and slowing down and breathing into it. And wherever the tightness starts to speak up holding that.

Dr. Wong:

So, maybe dancing it out? you’re saying.

Kari:

Dancing it out is always great.

Dr. Wong:

Slow dance or a pop music either way. Yeah or?

Kari:

There’s a technique called rebounding or jiggling.

Dr. Wong:

Oh, okay.

Kari:

Moving to rhythm.

Dr. Wong:

So, jiggling isn’t just for jello then?

Kari:

It’s not.

Dr. Wong:

Okay, good that’s good. I knew I was gonna throw that in there right? You knew that. So, jiggling. Let’s talk about jiggling or rebounding. What’s the difference there and what does that mean exactly?

Kari:

The difference between each other.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah, rebounding. Yes.

Kari:

I wouldn’t differentiate between them.

Dr. Wong:

Okay, great. So, they’re moving the fascia essentially.

Kari:

Yeah. So, you’re creating a bounce in the joints. You can do it with music to again. Take our mind out of that.

Dr. Wong:

My mind was going to some bouncy music there. Yes with the rebound.

Kari:

You can use bouncy music. You can use whatever music you like. But, so we can center ourselves and again listen to our body and create a bounce in the joints.

Dr. Wong:

So, rebounding is using a trampoline or something else you can but you can just also just do it on the floor. Okay, so like jumping?

Kari:

Sure.

Dr. Wong:

What other thing?

Kari:

It doesn’t have to be. So, it can just be very small movements. It doesn’t have to be jumping.

Dr. Wong:

Okay so like, micro movements and jiggling gotten?

Kari:

Yes. And it also it depends on what the person is feeling and then likely those movements will change direction and intensity. So, maybe if we start jumping then it’ll go into more of a softer movement and vice versa.

Dr. Wong:

I like jiggling too. Because it’s very, I think it’s like the kind of the ragdoll thing where you’re kind of like doing all this with your hands and your head and like let everything kind of release a checking it out.

Kari:

Shaking it out , yeah. Letting the lymph move too which is extremely important especially now when we’re in this pandemic too. Because as you know, our lymph is the detoxification system and sedentary lifestyles don’t allow our bodies to detail.

Dr. Wong:

So, for those who are listening out there. Who are working or you know they’re at their desk whether it’s sitting or standing in a way. We know that you know, standing can be helpful or like kind of alternating between sitting and standing. But then, we also know if we’re just in one position even if it is standing for a long period of time and that’s not really great for the lymph node.

Kari:

Right.

Dr. Wong:

Lymph system either.

Kari:

Right. The lymph system moves with manipulation which would be a very light massage or skin brushing or movement.

Dr. Wong:

Movement, okay. So, jiggle during your zoom meetings everyone basically.

Kari:

Thats right. Okay, get everybody to jiggle during the zoom meeting.

Dr. Wong:

Okay, alright. We’ll definitely work on that. Well, we can talk about some closing questions here. Do you have a morning routine? and if so, if you don’t mind sharing what that is for other listeners.

Kari:

Sure. Yes, I do have a morning routine and it’s essential to my well-being. I truly believe that. I write down my gratitudes for the day. I focus on my intentions for the day. I do some breath work, nothing too complicated. Just mindful breathing and I walk for 30 to 45 minutes.

Dr. Wong:

Any shaking or jiggling there?

Kari:

I don’t have that included in the moment, actually.

Dr. Wong:

So, getting off the right foot and then maybe after that the right fascia could be helpful. Not planned, not planning. Just part of the conversation. Yeah. I think that’s great. A morning routine is really great. I’ve been doing this miracle morning routine for like over 500 days now. It’s really great. Yeah, fantastic. And I’m doing some jiggling with it you know trying to incorporate some of that definitely some movement. Walking is great and getting outside you know, we’re really meant to be outside get the fresh air and things like that see the sun you know all that stuff. Connect with nature.

Kari:

I do like to incorporate jiggling between my clients to move a little bit. If I’ve been in a position for the same time.

Dr. Wong:

And in terms of the the energy that we get through. The whole body including the fascia. We know that there’s this concept that is very revolutionary sounding but it’s sounds very basic called earthing. The idea of connecting the earth with their bare feet or with cotton socks or something like that also called grounding. How do you feel about earththing or grounding and how important that is?

Kari:

I think it’s really important.

Dr. Wong:

To the fascia and beyond.

Kari:

This our connection, which you know I’m sure fascia appreciates.

Dr. Wong:

Yes, exactly. And do you feel like we’re getting enough of that nowadays like earthing or grounding?

Kari:

I guess some people might be gardening and I think that there’s a lot of people doing more of that type of work or appreciating fresh foods and things like that. But that’s different than you know sitting or getting our feet into the earth. Likely, we’re not getting enough of that you know. We have busy lives at this point so.

Dr. Wong:

So, we’re just going to bite the bullet in the fall and winter and get those bare feet out there like cold ground or you know, they do have the earthling maps and things like that.

Kari:

Yeah.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah, might try that out.

Kari:

That’s a good idea.

Dr. Wong:

So, what book or podcast besides this, yeah. CIH podcast of course, are you enjoying the most right now?

Kari:

I really enjoy ancestral knowledge. Have you checked that one out?

Dr. Wong:

I love that. Yeah, we’re gonna try to get them on the podcast very soon. Actually, yes.

Kari:

I listen to that one weekly. I do like The Doctor’s Farmacy, doctor.

Dr. Wong:

Dr. Hyman. Yeah. That’s a great one.

Kari:

Jonathan Foust. He’s local, but and he’s fabulous.

Dr. Wong:

He has a podcast?

Kari:

He has a podcast.

Dr. Wong:

Okay, good. Now check them out yeah.

Kari:

I’d like to listen to one called song exploder. Not health related but I like to the creative process of things. I feel like it also helps me in my work listen to other people’s creative way.

Dr. Wong:

Song exploder? It sounds like something you could do with jiggling, but.

Kari:

It’s a podcast about how songs are created.

Dr. Wong:

Okay.

Kari:

So, they pick a specific artist or song and then they go like track by track and discuss what inspired them and what they were thinking when they included specific tracks.

Dr. Wong:

Cool. What kind of music do you like? or do you play music yourself?

Kari:

I don’t really play music. I learned to play violin recently within the last five years. I wouldn’t claim to be a musician.

Dr. Wong:

A violinist playing it for five years. Yeah, that’s amazing.

Kari:

I listen to all types of music.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah. That’s great. And what do you do every day to cultivate joy? Which we know is really important for the fascia of the whole body.

Kari:

Well speaking of music. I listen to music purposefully.

Dr. Wong:

Your tracks are great in the clinic here. And anything that you recommend? Maybe, any artist or anything off the top of your head that may cultivate that stillness, that inner wisdom that deep deeper level of grounding or healing any of your favorites.

Kari:

Tracks?

Dr. Wong:

Wel,l artists or tracks or whatever artists or whatnot.

Kari:

If I’m needing grounding, I usually tend to go to drumming. I do like tracks by David Abraham or WAH but it doesn’t have to be that style of music. That’s more like Cortan, Trevor Hall.

Dr. Wong:

Okay, great. We’ll have to get the spelling of that later and put it on there. Thank you. So, Kari, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. It’s been an amazing conversation, lots of fun to talk about your cat some and certainly myofascial release and overall health related to body work. How can listeners learn more about you and work with you?

Kari:

I do have a website. It’s myofascialreleasedmv.com. And you can email me via the website or just to my email here at CIH, kwillford@cih.org.

Dr. Wong:

Okay. So, your email myofascialreleasedmv.com. Right. Okay, great. Well, Kari is an amazing healer myofascial therapist. Highly recommend her. Thank you so much Kari for being on today.

Kari:

Thank you, Dr. Wong.

Dr. Wong:

Thank you so much for taking the time to listen today and if you enjoy this conversation please take a moment to leave us a review. It helps our podcast to reach more listeners. Don’t forget to subscribe, so you don’t miss our next conversations and thank you so much for being here and spending your valuable time with us today.