Episode 9: Cory Jecmen, L.Ac, M.ac on Acupuncture & Breathwork for Pain, Stress, and Gut Health

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SPEAKERS: Dr. Andrew Wong, Cory Jecmen

Welcome to the Capital Integrative Health podcast, a podcast dedicated to transforming the consciousness around what it means to be healthy and understanding the root causes of both disease and wellness. I am Dr. Andrew Wong, co-founder of Capital Integrative Health, an integrative practice committed to expanding access to holistic root cause medicine to the global community.

Today we have our friend and colleague Cory Jecmen. Cory is an acupuncturist and traditional chinese medicine practitioner who has been with CIH for several years helping her patients get to the root cause of conditions including anxiety, chronic pain, digestive concerns and much more. His primary goal is leveraging the power of acupuncture to move patients towards long-term wellness and optimal health. Today we are going to dive into how acupuncture and breath work can benefit your health. We want to let you know that for this episode we were not able to use the original audio from the microphone. But because the conversation with Cory was so valuable, we wanted to share the audio that we captured from our camera. We hope you could still enjoy learning about how acupuncture and breath work can be powerful tools on your health journey.

Dr. Wong:

Again. Welcome Cory and thank you so much for being on the podcast.

Cory:

Absolutely. I’m very excited to be here. This is going to be fantastic.

Dr. Wong:

Absolutely, yeah.

Cory:

Good to be here, yeah.

Dr. Wong:

So, first I guess we could talk about your background and maybe how we know each other and how we kind of met. And then getting introduced to integrative health you know. How are you introduced to integrative health?

Cory:

Yeah. I can start with that since it’s having such a long time ago sort of chronologically here. Yeah. I was, I wasn’t doing too hot when I was younger in high school you know. Just sort of feed myself with taco bell and nothing wrong with that. But you know, that’s sort of, that was my lifestyle. And having a lot of poor health and concerns and was introduced to a oriental medical doctor, Dr. Jake Fratkin and was able to see him fortunately for a series of treatments that had changed my life and sort of never looked back. It was sort of open, as this potential in this opportunity that right in the time. When I was trying to figure out what to do you know with my life. It was sort of I have a lot of, a lot of medicine in the family. Orthopedic surgeons and dentists. And that sort of thing, and allergists you know. And so it sort of. It was, it was a template. But it didn’t quite fit me you know. I was really interested in jumping in and you know, helping people and making a difference. And that was a vehicle that I sort of chose to do that through. So, you know it was a lot even sort of functional medicine before it was around as much as it is today. And it was, you know. It was leaky gut and candida and all these sorts of treatments for these types of things and it just really. It changed my life. And so I went through school looking to go pre-med and then just sort of couldn’t convince myself that was the route that was best for me. And I sat down after them cat and all these things and said write a personal essay and it was sort of I couldn’t convince myself. So, I couldn’t even begin to write one so as you know. This is what looked the most promising. And I set sail on it and it’s been a fantastic journey you know. I think it’s hard for us to know what we’re going to end up in life actually doing from day to day and if it’s really going to be a great fit until we go. You know decade deep in it and figure that out. So, i’ve been very fortunate to sort of be a aligned and a match with what I do really.

Dr. Wong:

Yes. It sounds like your personal experience with Dr. Jake and maybe doing some Acupuncture TCM type treatments really changed the narrative on what you wanted to do with your career.

Cory:

Yeah.

Dr. Wong:

That’s great.

Cory:

Supremely effective. And it was yeah it worked great for me. And it was you know, it was a great engagement with the patient. And it was really getting to know people and it was sort of you know, it fit well. It had time and space to do it in you know under, it wasn’t under constraints of other types of medicines.

Dr. Wong:

So you went to acupuncture school eventually at the formerly known as Tai Sophia.

Cory:

Absolutely.

Dr. Wong:

Now called MUIH. Can you tell us about that experience with an acupuncture? How did you get introduced to you know some of the deeper aspects of acupuncture that you practice now?

Cory:

Yeah. Just you know, I felt like the universe sort of had my back on that one. Just like put me in the right place at the right time you know. It was I couldn’t do that again. If I tried to make that work you know. Looking at schools and would you pick one out I had to do a tour you know. I mean it’s a place was such a good fit you know just the philosophy and the people and the, you know the whole vibe of the place. It just it gelled. It was a huge place to transfer personal transformation and growth. And I think that’s what they really foster well is just you know you’ve got to live it. You’ve got to learn it and you’ve got to sort of be it to become it you know. And so it was really pivotal in that way for me. So, yeah and then you know. Throughout my resume, after school you know did it a bit and at private practice. And I did a bit at the VA Medical Center downtown DC you know. And it was in with a research organization there and then went out to KC Health was where I met you and that was a fantastic. Sort of eye-opening experience to be sort of introduced to you and your mindset around medicine. I hadn’t been exposed to anybody this you know had your your same sort of outlook on things. So that was just that was transformational. And I sort of, I knew when I found you, it was a good match. So yeah. So, we you know. We had a bit of a time there and then you know followed you on over here and just been absolutely amazed at what you’re creating. And you know the whole team that have never been a and in with some organization that everything’s resonating on the same sort of plane with you know all the staff, everybody that i feel you know loves to be.

Dr. Wong:

It’s been an amazing journey absolutely and the people here are great you know. Heart centered. And speaking back to MUIH. You know a lot of us are have some training or some you know these philosophical similarities with in the MUIH (Maryland University of Integrative Health) so yourself, Liz a lot of the nutrition team as well.

Cory:

Absolutely.

Dr. Wong:

What do you like most about being an acupuncturist? Let’s start with that.

Cory:

Yeah. I get to talk to the most amazing people that do the most amazing different things that I’d never be exposed to in my life, that’s one. One sort of small little tangent but really get to dive into someone’s life and I have the time to explore and see how it really ticks and you know I don’t feel sort of constrained to go explore and really investigate you know. And I think that’s the key to sort of health and wellness is you know you can be a decent fit for a lot of things but how do you know the right fit and you’ve got the right tool and what that tool actually is. And so this is getting to know people and then watching transformations. I mean you know selfishly is one of the most rewarding careers I think. I could ever stumble into you know. And it’s yeah, just to watch and be a part of somebody’s growth and transformation and their healing journey you know. Whatever that starts at and whatever it sort of becomes. It’s just fascinating to watch and to be a part of it.

Dr. Wong:

I feel like that’s why a lot of us go into healthcare. Is to connect with people and to not only help people but also connect with them. Because we’re so interested in people and mindset their lives their hobbies or passions all that.

Cory:

Yeah. It’s a amazing the different lives, people live.

Dr. Wong:

Exactly.

Cory:

And getting a window into that.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah and I think. Besides that clinically. We know that patients are our best teachers. You

know we can do all the studying and all the conferences and read all the books we want but when we connect with people that’s when the real magic that we’re learning happens as well.

Cory:

Absolutely! My only, other thing that’s sort of that hits on a similar level is parenting. You know, yeah. To be the thing.

Dr. Wong:

Yes, same yes.

Cory:

That you know, somebody else is going to emulate you know calls me to a higher standard the same way that that acupuncture practice does that you know. It really, and I’ve sort of welcomed it and invited it in. But just you know to put my life on display and sort of be, you know step up. To be that role model and sort of live the lifestyles that I speak of and the behaviors that I you know, that I encourage people to do as you know through example and so you know it’s really that accountability. That’s brought into my life where you know I’ve got put it all out on display and none of it’s you know I don’t intend on hiding any of it. So it’s, but it’s got to be kind of you know.

Dr. Wong:

Right.

Cory:

What did I .

Dr. Wong:

It’s about being not doing. It’s about living that life.

Cory:

Absolutely.

Dr. Wong:

And embodying that health. And I feel like with acupuncture too. As my training with medical acupuncture. I’m sharing this with Liz on the first podcast. I feel that healing involves you know this relationship between the practitioner and the patient. But some of those you know I guess boundaries might be somewhat a little blurred there because we know that with healing in a traditional model. You have a provider that provides some XYZ amount of care to a patient in a very almost like a passive way. You know, like you think about like passive administration of antibodies or something or you know administration of medications or supplements which I think could be really helpful for a lot of people.

Cory:

Right.

Dr. Wong:

From my healing perspective. I always felt that when I do acupuncture treatment. I’m also getting healed by the universe in a way so it’s like a bi-directional energy exchange as opposed to absolutely a person doing a treatment on another person.

Cory:

Yeah. It’s a connection you know. It’s sort of you know, right. You’re in that moment. You’re on the same journey. You know, you’re walking right beside them and it’s on the same thing and you get to sort of right in some some strange way experience that growth and transformation also you know.

Dr. Wong:

In that same boat together absolutely. Yeah. That’s great and so we talked about a little bit about you know acupuncture and how it’s been so transformational for you. Let’s get into some of the the details of acupuncture because I don’t think a lot of people would necessarily know/ They might have had a couple treatments they might have known someone that got acupuncture but let’s start from real basic first, what is acupuncture? How does acupuncture, how can acupuncture help people’s health?

Cory:

Yeah. Absolutely. I think it’s a very vague understanding out there right? It’s a friend headed or somebody you know most people know somebody that’s had it.

Dr. Wong:

But most people know that acupuncture involves needles, I would say.

Cory:

Right, yeah. And even that understanding is very poorly understood you know it’s sort of you know the guess the best that I can sort of assume is that people relate it to their other needle experiences of hypodermics. It’s just not the same thing you know.

Dr. Wong:

Like getting a blood draw. Yeah.

Cory: Yeah. It’s, couldn’t be any more different in my experience. But yeah. But that’s what we start with for most people. So it’s a you know, it’s a bit of understanding and a learning that has to happen and you know what it is and what it isn’t you know. And then it’s hard to wrap your head around. You can put a little piece of cellulose there’s a tiny sliver of stainless steel and the very precise thing and some electrochemical reactions and happens in your life changes you know mean. How do you break that down into something that’s understandable? And you know and how do you invent that thing you know? It’s very poorly understood. But what we do is, I have is you know generations and generations of the shoulders that I’m standing on of experience and lifetimes of learning and practice. So we know what, when to do what and why to do it and what to expect and anticipate as an outcome. So it’s very understood in the practice of. But scientifically, you know the mechanism and that sort of hasn’t been discovered yet is the way I like to put it. You know, I just think we’re continually learning and we just sort of don’t understand it the complexity of what really exists. So.

Dr. Wong:

Yes.

Cory:

Yes, yeah. So that’s kind of my.

Dr. Wong:

And my understanding of acupuncture is that because there’s different meridians in the TCM system where there’s energy channels. Acupuncture tries to unblock those channels or meridian does that. That’s part of acupuncture.

Cory:

Yeah, yeah. I’ll probably break it down a little bit and sort of go into it right. Because I think there is sort of a learning curve for most people out there. Imagine some listening to this as well, but yeah we’ve got a system of channels. Sort of back up a little bit here. We’ve got, we have 12 primary acupuncture channels and they circulate this very poorly understood Chi sort of energy right. And it’s a life spark. It helps things do their function. There’s a lot of ways to describe it and it’s hard to measure. So we have this kind of a circulatory system so to speak of this energy that circulates around our body. And as I, you know. I like to my analogy that I got from a colleague is sort of garden houses you know. We have a, these 12 garden houses that are connected sort of screwed end to end and we’ve got 12 defined sections of them and it’s a closed loop and it circulates it around right. But you know we want continuity in the system. And so as I’m addressing a patient you know. I’m looking for a few different things in that system. I want to make sure that you know as the sort of energy flows around the system. Is there any major blockages in the system? Is there a dam in the river? Is there kink in the hose? Is the couplings now screwed together? You know, is there some underlying blockage that’s going to prevent the progression? And if there’s is, if that exists, then then we need to resolve it first before we sort of set the foundation out. Before we go on. And then we start to work at you know equality. Is everybody getting a fair share of what the energy that’s being circulated? Does everybody have enough to do? What they need to do? And so then we start to work on balancing out the system make sure the distribution is good and then we start to work in. And it doesn’t have to necessarily be in this order but the quality of how the energy feels you know it’s a very sort of particular. Sort of optimal quality that we’re looking for. And you know as we see sort of different conditions arise. The quality changes a bit. I’m going into that a bit but. Yeah. You know each one of these sort of 12 channels. The way that I think I’m not trying to dumb down anything. It’s just, it’s hard to explain in ways and so I use a bit of analogies with it. But you know if we were going to divide ourselves, our whole human existence in 12 equal pieces of a pie, right. All our physiological function, all our mental, emotional processes, all our spiritual aspects of ourselves and we’re sort of put that all in a 12 equal containers you know each channel is responsible for its own. For that group of functions and so when we’re doing an intake with someone you know in the conversation. Where, we’re identifying who’s responsible for this and sort of who’s not picking up the you know, their fair share kind of thing. So, yeah. So that’s kind of how the channel system works and there’s different things that can affect you.

Dr. Wong:

And acupuncture also relies heavily on pulse reading. So can you explain to everyone what pulse reading is? And how, why that’s so important?

Cory:

Yeah. You know we need a sort of a look in you know an accurate look into the body to tell us what’s happening and currently. And so you know before labs and before imaging and all these other ways to sort of.

Dr. Wong:

Maybe a window to your garden house.

Cory:

Yeah right, we’re gonna

Dr. Wong:

Take a look, let’s take a look.

Cory:

Exactly. This is exactly it. So we have to you know do some sort of assessment that can tell us what’s going on and we use the pulse quite heavily. And so I explained it a lot to patients. So you know anyone that’s been in treatment with me. If I heard this sort of explanation before. But you know it’s we take a pulse over on the radial artery and it looks like a regular post but it’s not related there’s some concern with the heart rate but it’s not the heart rate that we’re looking at. We’re looking at the quality of the fluid in an elastic tube. And so the way this sort, understand that is there. We can’t feel the “Qi”. It’s there is no substance right. So we have to measure it somehow so we feel the blood and we sort of you know the blood follows “Qi” and so the blood is this kind of artifact or hologram of the of the “Qi”. And so by feeling the quality of the blood we can make an interpretation of how that she’s doing. And so in these very particular spots we’re looking for what the quality and what the volume. All the different sort of characteristics of what that feels like. And so kind of go around the loop of those 12 little garden houses and sort of check in and who’s got, what and how does it feel. And each one of these sorts of things and so you know. My analogy that I use oftentimes. Because it’s kind of a magnified view. Is to, it’s a water balloons. It’s another elastic, you know thing with fluid inside and even you know with no practice. As your eyes closed, I could set out a couple water balloons here on the table and we could, you could tell me very easily this one’s got a little air before I get some water. And so it’s kind of, it’s not quite full. And then this one is so overly full, chock-full you couldn’t fit anymore and the whole outside’s all tense and rigid and or this one has some you know this viscosity is different in this one. It’s got some sort of you know jelly in it.

Dr. Wong:

I think that’s a crucial difference as well between a western pulse. Which is taking it and you know one spot on the radial artery. And it’s really just with you know a couple fingers versus the acupuncture more of a superficial middle and deep pulses and there’s three different right.

Cory:

Three different positions, two layers both sides, right.

Dr. Wong:

On both sides right. That’s like 18 pulses essentially, yeah. Or 12 different too related to the 12 channels absolutely.

Cory:

Yeah. And so it’s you know. It’s a lot of nuance and it takes forever to learn. It’s you know, still trying to get better at it But it really helps me sort of set up the treatment you know. I sort of, I need to define what’s happening. Our conversation helps and all these other sort of assessment techniques help. And I need to sort of have what’s happening internally. And then it helps me sort of design the treatment and so we’ll set up what we’re going to do for the day and then put those in. And then I use it as the only way to get better in life. I think is just massive amounts of feedback you know. In the system. So I think it’s checking to see as my treatment landing houses. The body responding to what i’ve decided to do you know. And is that actually moving the way that we’ve intended to do it. And so I check in with the pulse a lot. If you’re going to come in with treatment with me you can sort of put your wrist up and you know be really good at that, doing it multiple times in a treatment and then you know when we finish. Sort of taking a snapshot of where we left off with and we see if that returns. If it stays, sticks around, all that sort of stuff. It really gives me a lot of information.

Dr. Wong:

I have a few follow-up questions to that Cory. One is, what conditions do you find acupuncture most helpful for in your experience as a clinician?

Cory:

Yeah. All sorts of things. The breath of what it influences is huge you know. And it’s sort of, I mean. I’m amazed at what people walk in and ask me to do sometimes. And that’s fun part of it too you know. I think it’s better at some things than others. But it can do a lot. Can’t do everything. No, there’s not much pain to see out there. It works great in combination with other things. I think there’s you know a lot of different modalities in healthcare kind of a Venn diagram. You’ve got kind of a bleed over and the other modalities a bit and there can be some cross influence. But hitting it sort of spot on in the center circle is pretty important obviously you know. There’s been plenty of research on aches and pains we’ve sort of proven that over the years. I’m not to say that every, every single pain responds well but that’s really a generally easy thing to sort of accomplish. I end up treating a lot of anxiety and emotional sort of disturbance that gets a little too sticky and then sleep you know. I think working here is sort of one of the, one of the beautiful things is the sort of level of education. And the knowledge that people have here and especially working with you over the years. I mean you’re one of the best people that understands acupuncture the most and what to sort of expect it to do. For someone and the referrals I get here are just spot on you know. It’s a really, it’s a nice when that’s all matched and somebody’s expectations of what they’re going to come in again you know they achieve.

Dr. Wong:

That’s great! They give great feedback back to me. Back to the team. So thank you, yeah. And so yeah. Sleep, anxiety, emotional issues, aches and pains. Of course, what about digestive issues have you had any people that that come in for more like irritable bowel or some digestive issues?

Cory:

Yeah. You know I think it can be very helpful in that arena. I’m totally transparent. I’m really happy to work on a team with nutritionists. Because it’s so hard to sort of like the education that has to go into teaching people and the sort of, you know the behavior change and the influences right. It’s tough to be the only one-stop shop on all those things. And so it is great to work with a team that can help educate and work with things you know. If it’s biochemical and there’s you know. And or, if it’s food or there’s different things going on that are besides energetic. Sometimes it’s hard to do it alone. But you know, I can have a great influence on it. Got somebody’s constipation moving along the other day it was great outcome you know, different abdominal pains. It’s really tough to assess different sort of signals and signs when they’re coming from inside.

Dr. Wong:

And we are very lucky and blessed to have great nutritionists here. And I think you know, it takes a village. And that’s what I always say.

Cory:

Absolutely.

Dr. Wong:

You know, luckily here we have a village that talks to each other and communicates and coordinates right. You can have a village that they’re all just like in their huts and you know you’re on the wi-fi from the whole time or something right.

Cory:

Which is what it typically ends up being right and all the ones. That the effort, the intention is there. But that actually is really tough to keep up with, right? The integration of the providers at the group.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah. So, I think you were saying before the podcast started rolling that. You know, you’re looking at kind of this optimal view of medical and healthcare and wellness care as kind of like spokes in a wheel. Can you kind of talk a little bit more about spokes in a wheel?

Cory:

Yeah that was a great. You know just sort of dreaming this up last night. Thinking about coming here and talking about it, yeah. But it was you know people can seek out acupuncture primary. I mean we can do a lot of different things. I don’t think it’s you know in our in our society and with our system you know I don’t think it serves that role. I think you know what you do and what the primary care team does is sort of the hub you know. You have to sort of differentiate which constellations of treatment are going to be the most accurate fit for what somebody has and that’s utmost important. And I think that’s what you guys do a great job. And then I’m gonna spoke out on the wheel here you know and I can be a really good fit. But we have to sort of it’s best to know that, that’s gonna fit really well. And I think you know where I sort of expanded that idea was that it’s also very important to have a wheel that surrounds this hub and that spoke. Because to sort of contain it all. Because I think you know what ends up happening in our sort of modern system is. You know you’ve got a hub that might sort of throw you out on a vector. You know on a trajectory out into one of those spokes but there’s no sort of rally back in and sort of containment to keep it all sort of together.

Dr. Wong:

A one-way ticket.

Cory:

It’s a one-way ticket you know slingshot to pluto and beyond you know. Where’s the, you know. It’s the onus is on the patient to sort of, to collect and to return back and sort of keep up with that, right? And it, but it, takes a quarterback and kind of you know somebody at the hub to sort of you know choreograph all of that.

Dr. Wong:

And we did talk some, at some of our podcasts already about how the patient is the CEO of their own health. However, there are times that you know the patients especially initiating their journey. If they’re having chronic illnesses or maybe have some time and energy issues. Initially, you might need more of a support in the beginning. So that’s where I think that wheel analogy really fits too.

Cory:

Yeah it’s tough when you’re going through it you know. People are a tough jam sometimes. And it’s tough to have the physical resources, the energy you know. The time you know, financially. And then you know, if you, if you’re lacking in support around you to help sort of you know contain your wheel. You know and stuff.

Dr. Wong:

I am going to do a little shout out here for acupuncture for the immune system. Because it is about still COVID-19 pandemic here 2021. And I have personally used acupuncture for myself. But I’ve had colds and I was sitting at home putting some you know gallbladder 21 points and things in my own arm like, “Ah shoot” I got to get over there and stretch over there. But it really made a difference you know for me. And I know that acupuncture also can do things like just kind of run some research here. Increase natural killer cells. It can decrease cortisol. That if that cortisol level is too high you know sometimes, you don’t want to be that high. And obviously can do things like balance the autonomic nervous system improve the vagus nerve activity. Things like that. It does so many things from a sort of this western you know physiology level.

Cory:

Absolutely.

Dr. Wong:

That essentially translates to the patient as well. I feel great you know my immune system is better. I’m not getting as many colds now or you know whatever. So, yeah.

Cory:

And how do you measure that you really have a sensation of that of a better immune system, right? It’s hard for people to tell until you live it out and have some experiences and see how it’s sort of.

Dr. Wong:

That’s right.

Cory:

You know, how it fits so. It’s a, you know it’s unique. Is it your sort of, is it the key for your lock. And I think that’s sort of you know, it takes a bit of exploration as a patient to sort of find what that fit is. And unfortunately a little trial and error. But that’s also a learning journey for you to sort of explore and to see sort of how much of it i think you’ll know early on with any treatment If it’s the right sort of fit.

Dr. Wong:

In my practice. I really have felt that acupuncture is one of the best treatments for the immune system. So, do you recommend that?

Cory:

Oh yeah. Absolutely yeah. I think you know back to sort of you being a CEO of your own health you know it’s sort of you’re gonna take the onus on yourself and sometimes you can sort of go very far with. If you’re doing the work with diet, exercise, mindfulness meditation, breathing all the things, right? And if you’re doing those and sometimes you also need to help up. Helping hand to sort of just give you a little assist and.

Dr. Wong:

That’s right.

Cory:

Give you the layup. So you can or give you the ball so you can make the layup.

Dr. Wong:

Well, you mentioned mindfulness and meditation. So, it’s a perfect segue to the next question. The next area of topics we want to talk about today. Because you’re such an expert in and very passionate about breath work. So, I think let’s talk about first of all how you view stress. What is stress? How you use stress? And then how do we transform our way of looking at stress by using the breath and other things?

Cory:

Yeah, absolutely. We’re probably going all day on this I’m talking about.

Dr. Wong:

We can talk about that on another podcast.

Cory:

Its yeah, we can. We can touch on it. If we want to sort of dive deeper in another time you know. It’s you know universal with people in existence. And I work with people and that’s what we talk about. It’s you know, I think there’s a couple different ways to explain it. Maybe we’ll go with sort of differentiate suffering and stress. I guess one of the ways I’d like to explain sort of things is you know you’ve got. Well, let’s do this. Let’s go with that with the stress. It’s tough to be a a good, have a great view of your own stress. I just had somebody the other day was like, how would I know if I’m stressed?

Dr. Wong:

There’s some blank spots.

Cory:

Oh yeah. It’s after sort of all the explanations of what was going on, in this person’s life. I was like are you kidding me. How will I know it’s there? It’s like the awareness has to sort of be at some level to know what’s actually happening internally. And how do you know that? I mean, I think you know stress is such a vague term. You know, better use this sort of engineering term as I’ve been told. You know and it’s, it catches everything for us. But it’s not just every sort of blanket catch-all thing. It’s very detailed you know and it’s very specific things in people’s lives. Is it your colleague that’s annoys you every day? Is it your you know, is it a health concern? What is it? And define it a bit for yourself. And then you know, all stress isn’t created equal with different weights. But then, there’s also sort of the you know the you know the relative stress is sort of stress over time. And it’s like the analogy that I like that. I’ve heard before. Is you know, how much does that microphone that you’re talking into way? It might be like under a pound. Let’s say right. It’s not a very heavy thing but if you take it off that stand and you hold it for a while it’s going to feel real light at first. And then you start holding it through the rest of the day and you’re going to sort of end up this evening your arm is going to be pretty tough, pretty tired. And if you make it through the day or even tomorrow. Your arm’s going to fall off literally. And so you know, this load over time is also something that people don’t really have a good understanding of you know. And it’s, and it erodes us, and it’s tough to have something to balance out the other side of the teeter-totter. And that leverage with our lifestyle and our behaviors and things to actually sort of find a neutral zone when we sort of take things on.

Dr. Wong:

I feel like life now is tilted a little bit more towards that erosion zone you know. Kind of like these low-level, but yet chronic and remembering stressors over time can really erode our health.

Cory:

Right. Because a lot of times you don’t know you have this light little microphone in your pocket until you sort of like carry it forever. And I think we’re very poor judges of total of weight over time especially like if we were to go on on a bank. I’m assuming you’ve sort of done some backpacking. When you pick that pack up in the morning, it’s like you are not a judge of how heavy that pack is going to be. And it’s, it changes over time. And I think it becomes very apparent to us when we set it down for a moment. And then for lunch or something then pick it back up which is an analogy for meditation you know. Mindfulness. You know, set it down and take a break for a minute and then it becomes clear when you pick it back up actually. What shape? What form? What density all these sort of things are?

Dr. Wong:

So, if I hear you right and understand you’re right. You’re saying that we can take that stress in the backpack and we’re allowed to set it down. You have to give it some rest. I mean give ourselves. Right?

Cory:

And I think what this sort of big differentiation of different types of stresses is ones that sort of are forced upon us. And ones we’ve sort of like voluntarily, taken on those resonate different with us. And they activate different parts of our psyche with you know. If we’ve voluntarily sort of gone into some or decided that we’re going to take it on we’re going to do well with it. It activates different processes with our challenge and reward and accomplishment. And these sort of internal drives of ours to sort of make it better and to sort of you know do better with our lives. And to measure our lives with progress and these types of things you know. We’re settled with something and we don’t want it and we never you know who does what you know. We wouldn’t choose these things for ourselves and we get to, but we get to choose what our opinion is or what what the meaning that we assign to it or if we want to sort of decide that we’re going to take it on. And so, we get to choose those types of things and that makes all the difference you know. If we’ve sort of perceived that we’ve been settled with something you know. And then we continue to pick it up every day you know. Something that’s society’s doing.

Dr. Wong:

Pretty heavy weight to there, yeah.

Cory:

And I also think that people miss the opportunity to sort of be neutral with something to sort of not have an opinion one way or another. I think that’s a sort of, that somebody else’s experience, life experience, their perspectives, their situation, could have a completely different meaning. And what is factual for them you know. What I mean and to sort of let that be okay for them you know. And, but I think you know it’s I’d encourage you know. Everything doesn’t have to be in a positive or negative sort of or a plus or a minus. We don’t have to sort of discern that automatically. Which I think is our own. A lot of you know a lot of our nature to do. We could just be okay with it or neutral or just sort of not have an opinion and that’s okay too you know.

Dr. Wong:

Right.

Cory:

And that’s sometimes is just all that you need to set it down or not even pick it up in the first place.

Dr. Wong:

Got it. Shifting that perspective.

Cory:

Yeah absolutely.

Dr. Wong:

We could also change that backpack for a frisbee that’s another option.

Cory:

Exactly.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah. Kind of zoom out into outer space there.

Cory:

Right.But I think you can get good with your load and you can make a make a harness for it and carry it around. And that’s you know, it’s great. And I think a lot of people are pointing at the arm and that the arms fatigued and there’s a problem with the arm but you don’t really realize you’ve been holding the mic out for you know, this whole podcast. Right? So, it’s just, it’s a lot of perception and there’s a lot of range in there that we have our own ability to influence and to help ourselves with. Right?

Dr. Wong:

So there’s stress and there’s suffering. Which in a way is assigning some sort of meaning to the stress almost like personalizing it to a degree that causes suffering at times.

Cory:

Absolutely you’re right! You’re spot on.

Dr. Wong:

I guess let’s talk about your experiences and take a deep dive now into breath work. Because we know that the breath is one of the amazing and best ways to manage energy and to kind of address some of these issues that are inevitably arriving rising in life with stress.

Cory:

Yeah. I think a lot of these different modalities take your pick right. It’s you know, it’s whatever you’re interested in doing and starting an interest, have an interest to go explore. Right? Breathing, meditation, exercise. Take your pick. There’s a lot of stuff out there for you. But I think what all of those do is kind of like help you change the shape of it moves on you and then you can define it better for yourself. Right? If acupuncture sort of lessens this load a little bit and then you can sort of see the force of trees and you get to sort of like you get to know it better. And you know, “oh my gosh I can’t believe I’ve been like doing this the whole time”. You get a little perspective because of the range and the difference. And I think it’s sort of another analogy I have. That I teach patients on it’s pretty simple and it’s sort of you know, on one hand. If you listen to this. I’ve sort of just got my hands sort of out here at that sort of chest height. But I’ve got one hand. I’ve got the way it is. It’s reality, right? I’ve got sort of this is, what it is? This table is white, this microphone stand exists with these letters on the microphone. This is reality. And then the other hand, is what I want it to be? This is my expectation. This is if it could be this or it should be or I’d rather it. All these sorts of things and these two hands sort of just holding out here in front of me you know this in between the airspace. In between is suffering right enough however farther apart these get the greater, the suffering sort of relative to it. So, as much as I can sort of unify the way that things are and my expectation or my desire for it to be is exactly what it is. If they’re unified, if we have just one thing. It is fine exactly the way it is. Then it’s hard to have any suffering inside of.

Dr. Wong:

That analogy, yeah.

Cory:

And so, how do you do that? How do you like sort of marry these things together, right? How do you sort of be okay at least or be you know somewhat content with things that happen to you that aren’t very good? And there’s so much bad situations and things that people don’t have any influence over. And so you know, I’m not trying to say this any sort of off. But we’ve got to figure out a way right to combine these things and be okay with how it is right this back to sort of the neutral concept a bit. But it’s also sort of you know. And so the way that I’ve found in my own practice is sort of you know fall in love with it. Find a way to fall in love with the reality of what is right and it’s and so you know we’re equipped with this big sort of electromagnetic sort of heart with love that has this sort of you know vibrational thing that attracts all the other hearts. And sort of you know, brings them together and just use that technique on the thing that you are separate from you know to attract it to yourself. And so it’s sort of been my practice in some very sort of dire situations in life to sort of fall in love with what it is. And so i’ll define it as just like a you know a security camera kind of thing. And i’ll just say you know, this is. There’s a blue trash can with a liner on it just describe the situation. This is in this person’s, in the hospital. And you know and I love it for that. Because I’ve decided to fall in love with the reality of the way that life is. And I’m going to find a way to find. And even if you start with this sort of micro, little. Well, the only thing I like in this room is this fake plant over here. You know what I mean. Start there and just let it sort of expand, you know what I mean? And so, you gotta find a way and.

Dr. Wong:

Create a little seat.

Cory:

Create a little. City jam your foot in the door and then maybe you can pry it open later. You know what I mean?

Dr. Wong:

So, gratitude but also acknowledging just the reality of the situation as well. It sounds like you can also doesn’t mean you can’t have goals or want things to be a certain way but we know that the real, the only reality is, really the present moment you know. That’s something we often forget. But we are also constantly reminded about that when we kind of drop back into into grounded sort of breathing.

Cory:

Right, yeah. It’s not a whole lot wrong, right here. If you breathe and you’re just sitting up and you’re doing a lot to be thankful for. And I think it’s a great sort of way to reorient yourself.

Dr. Wong:

Right. We’re upright, we’re breathing. Absolutely.

Cory:

Yeah there’s something in there to be grateful for. I know it, you know.

Dr. Wong:

So what styles of breath work do you like the most? What’s been helpful or most fun for you?

Cory:

Yeah. I, you know. I’d never say think. That I’d be sitting here talking about breath work. I literally. I had opportunities to be introduced to it many times. And I, there was a need. I didn’t that, I didn’t see apparently. I had asthma as a child. I was you know, I had a croup. I was you know in an oxygen tent for the first couple days of my life you know. I had some sort of some respiratory conditions that would have been right for finding this early on. So, I even had an instructor in school that was telling me all the cool things that were happening. Just sort of ignored it completely. But anyway, a couple patients came in. I think was the third one was like, you got to try this and it was just outside of my reference of like it felt a little too extreme. I really like the basics good nutrition some good movement. And you know, these breath hold retention techniques I didn’t explore. I think we’re really good at breathing. But we aren’t good at all the different dynamic sort of things that potential breathing can do for us of breath retention and different sort of. So What I explained to people is you know every situation has a physiology that sort of you know every physiologist this situation has a physiology. If I’m talking in front of you with a different heart rate different things you know and then the breathing sort of comes on board. So, “oh, this is what we’re doing”. I’ll get a brief a breath to match the situation right. And what you’re doing with the breathing exercise is just working that in reverse. We’ll do that. We’ll do the breath that we of the physiology that we want to achieve and then by doing the breath it’ll pull the physiology there. So most people are using breathwork to calm down, relax the system and sort of leverage it for that. And it can do that wonderfully. It can also excite it can sort of do all those different things. So, send some patients turn me on to some Wim Hof style and then sort of dove into it. Read every book and get my hands on kind of thing. And then, I’ve been doing a practice for about three years now. The first two times were just like you know, just something happened. And I was like, “oh, you gotta try” kind of stuff and then about a week into it. And these weren’t the effects that I was anticipating. I thought It’d be some sort of respiratory, cardiovascular improvement that might wind. When I ran would be different or something like this. Right? So, not at all. What arrived by the end of a week maybe five, seven practices deep or something my like whole cognition changed in a way and this is mostly like my encouragement towards people is it’s sort of hard to know where that sort of what what key would lock this will unlock for you. But for me personally. It was like memory and word recall and like you know my cognition. I have like, I had this potential that was just sitting out on the table that was completely untapped. I didn’t even know I had that sort of capacity in me. And so I just haven’t wanted to set it down. Since, I’ve been doing it daily you know. When I wake up in the morning, you know. I use a restroom so I don’t have anything sort of bothering me and then I’ll you know go back into bed and do a breath work for a while it’s real quiet.

Dr. Wong:

It’s awesome.

Cory:

Yeah. It’s a great sort of hijack for meditation. If you’re having trouble with meditation. But you need something a little more active to sort of concentrate on focus on five percent of this to actively breathe and take your mind off the other.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah. It’s more activating. I’ve definitely found it for me to help with energy especially in the morning. If I’m feeling tired you know. If I do a little bit of Wim Hof like I’ve done some with you under classes and everything you know that energy level just kind of goes up.

Cory:

Yeah it’s very active, which is a great.

Dr. Wong:

Time a couple of minutes.

Cory:

I have dropped it in the middle of the night when I can’t sleep and I got some anxiety. I mean it would completely change my state of into my entire you know, emotional cognitive state.

Dr. Wong:

Even when you’re sleeping, when you’re trying to sleep.

Cory:

Yeah. If I was trying you know. I’ve done sort of last resort. I sort of pulled it out. I was like well, whatever the tools I got sorry. It completely changed my state in my mental state. And so maybe it wasn’t the most relaxing thing. But I was able to go back to bed because that was what was keeping me up. And so it’s been effective. It’s just been massively effective in my life and I’d encourage people to there’s enough free content out there to follow along with.

Dr. Wong:

Are you talking about Wim Hof breathing per se or not necessarily this technique?

Cory:

Well, you know. There’s other sort of Wim Hof is a great place to get started. There’s you know, it depends what you’re looking for to accomplish. Right? There’s a bunch of different styles there’s you know. Box breathing, Buteyko. Just sort of expand. Work with asthma and different things. There’s quite a range of experiences depending on what you want to get. I would sort of explore. And you know, the one that sticks to the wall is probably the one you should do for a little while and see where that takes you. But I’ve completely changed like nose breathing and can sort of I mean it’s entirely regulation of my nervous system. I just did not expect was available to me.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah. Breath work definitely can change your physiology pretty quickly but then I think some studies say within the 90 seconds.

Cory:

Absolutely.

Dr. Wong:

You know it’s pretty incredible how many pills can do that you know.

Cory:

To change the state, right. You got a situation that you’re having a tough time breaking out of. You just sort of, right, you can change your physiology instantly and you can be in a different place in a couple minutes right.

Dr. Wong:

Breath work is also very anti-inflammatory. It actually shuts off thousands of genes that are you know driving inflammation. So you talk about you know health and how a lot of chronic illnesses are driven by inflammation. Breathwork is another great place to start along with nutrition, movement, right sleep and everything.

Cory:

Yeah. I think some of these sort of at least that you know. It’s not the most robust understanding of the physiologies that I’d have to admit but my understanding of sort of what some of these breath retention techniques is right. You’ve got this. You’ve changed the pH of your blood chemistry enough that it’s not asking for a breath. Which is oftentimes the trigger right. And so, your blood isn’t asking your brain so you can retain your breath for such a long time. Your blood oxygen levels are dipping blow into this sort of range that they’re not comfortable with which then triggers this sort of cascade of vascular production and oxygen carrying capacity and all these types of things. Where you know, just like when you’re exercising. You’re changing your metabolism that then burns even when you’re not exercising. These sort of vascularization and these sort of oxygen capacity then works you know outside of this and sort of builds up that whole system to be more robust because it was indefinitely.

Dr. Wong:

Talking about breath holding Cory. How long should people hold their breath? And I’m imagining hopefully that people can listen to their own bodies as well you know. What’s best for them.

Cory:

Yes the second you say that. I said like, “oh please, don’t sort of make it a competition”.

Dr. Wong:

Correct.

Cory:

With your previous self or with anyone else.

Dr. Wong:

Right. I wanted to mention that on this podcast. Because, I know people will probably say well, how long should I hold my breath? Anything else you know right.

Cory:

Yeah. People do with it different things. With it right. And maybe you know the ability on how long you can retain your breath as a maybe an indicator of health. But I think you know to just sort of the guidance would be completely to listen to what is. Because I can show up in totally different ways at different times you know. I wake up one morning and I can sort of like, I can shoot the moon. And the other mornings I’m like, I don’t even know why I can’t even make it to whatever.

Dr. Wong:

So that’s not what’s your body, let’s be safe and lay down when you’re doing.

Cory:

It’s that, my preferred sort of strategy or sit down, right. Where they say don’t pilot a vehicle. I don’t do anything a couple inches over you know whatever. That is be safe with yourself, please be kind, be safe with yourself and just explore right. It’s just an investigation and making conclusions or defining things as such you can sort of just say.

Dr. Wong:

Let’s mention 478 breathing as well. Because I think Wim Hof or breath holding can be more of an advanced technique. And some people may want to start with that but other people may want to start with a more calming breath absolutely. A lot of people are running around whether they’re running around physically or even mentally and you know. We also all needed time during the day either before at the end of the day or in the middle of the day to pause and you know 478 breathing is a perfect way to do that.

Cory:

When I think back to work. We talk about changing your physiology like changing your state if especially applicable on transitions during your day right. If you’re gonna go from one behavior to a different soul separate right. I’m gonna go you know, I’m a professional and now I’m gonna go home and be a dad or whatever these sort of role changes or some transitionary sort of state. I can take a few minutes and really bring myself there you know and not sort of linger in the sort of residue.

Dr. Wong:

So using the breath work practice as a little mini transition pause a little transition got it.

Cory:

Yeah. So I think you know and sort of basic understanding is you know these longer exhales are relaxing sort of the breaks on the nervous system. Sort of, calming. Very sort of collecting. And these inhales that you know. So the ratio of how much inhale to exhale you know if you’re activating or relaxing. So the longer exhales the longer the relax you know the more inhale in the practice the more activating.

Dr. Wong:

So, for 478 breathing for instance we would have four seconds of inhalation, seven seconds of holding the breath and then eight seconds of the exhalation.

Cory:

Right. So you can see that double ratio.

Dr. Wong:

Double ratio. Yeah, eight to four right.

Cory:

So, it’s very much highlighting the relaxation.

Dr. Wong:

The calming aspect, yeah. Got it. Well, anything else on breath work you’d like to say? Have you felt that your patients in acupuncture are doing the breath work like during treatments would you say? Or do you encourage them to do that?

Cory:

I think there’s a lot of opportunity there. I, you know. I don’t do a lot of sort of meditation. I think it’d be great for somebody to take out opportunity to sit there you know. We end up sorry, yammering on a bit and sort of explore their life and what’s going on. And it gets a little more casual I think. When we’re sort of upright sitting and having a conversation that somebody’s trying to explain all this stuff going on. It’s different and sort of you know. And so, I, you know maybe I’m utilizing that space and time a little bit differently. Maybe I should keep my mouth shut let him do some breathing some meditation.

Dr. Wong:

Different things for different people, right?

Cory:

Absolutely right! Yeah. So, it’s an experiment with yourself right. And see what works you know and listen and observe and then right if you really respond to this relaxation technique of breathing and that’s one for you.

Dr. Wong:

With this amazing esoteric breathing technique known as breathing, yeah. You all are available 24/7. We’re talking right now, we’re breathing.

Cory:

About accessibility here.

Dr. Wong:

Whether you’re driving a car having a conversation with someone eating, even you know between your, you still gotta breathe when you’re eating you know. So these are all areas that we could, opportunities. I would say, moments of opportunities.

Cory:

Right we’re already pretty good right. We’ve been doing it for a long time you know.

You sort of. You know, just figure out how it is to you know. I guess if you’re walking, you’re good at walking right. But did you have, you run and crawled and Tai-Chi and doing all these other things with your with your legs? It’s pretty fun.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah. And we’re not often aware that we’re breathing though. I would say, you know we’ve been breathing you know many many, who knows how many breaths you know in our lifetimes here. But it’s not something we pay attention to all the time. We’re always paying attention to these other other aspects of our lives.

Cory:

And I think by nature. The situation sort of requires you to breathe in a certain way right. And if we’re a bit stressed and uptight for them, we’re sort of you know, we’re activating these sort of costly muscles. We’re getting our chest breathing, going and that’s just it seems natural because that’s the breath for a stress situation right. We want to open up the pipeline and give next.

Dr. Wong:

And I love what you said about the bi-directional nature of that breath to your mood. If you want to change your mood you can actually change your breathing and then it’ll go in the reverse way which is what you’re saying.

Cory:

Yeah, absolutely. And so, just to be conscious of sort of where you’re from and how you’re breathing? What sort of you know. Because it’s a mirror of the situation that you’re in right. If I’m really chest breathing an upper ribcage breathing. I’m probably having a stressful moment you know.

Dr. Wong:

One of the best ways to activate breathing is to just remind ourselves that we’re alive. We’re, we have bodies. We’re breathing the breath is flowing in and out and smiling right. Smiling is another piece that’s going to potentially activate some of those relaxation you know aspects of breathing. So, maybe we were talking about benefits earlier. But I thought this was great to you know add on this podcast.

Cory:

So, yeah. That was just a comment I was on my way in here. I was mentioned to you before we we fired this up. But it was, I had my mask off and I was out in public and you know it was a lot of distance everything was good. But I was just realizing I was smiling at everybody that was going by. Sort of purposefully. And I just sort of, I had this you know what a smile deficit that’s been going on for the last.

Dr. Wong:

People were wearing masks.

Cory:

Well I was. I could see people in cars. I was actually driving in the parking lot and somebody sort of let me go and I had a big smile and she started smiling. That sort of what set it off. And then somebody’s crossing the course, you know this young little girl. That was sort of. I was smiling with her nice.

Dr. Wong:

Smiling from the car. The energy is so you know amazing.

Cory:

Yeah. You can be in a safe environment and smile. So, but just you know that. How much you know, coverings have been worn and how much sort of you know that transmission of that sort of love and that you know encouragement of you know it’s really contagious. The the smile and the mood and that sort of stuff. And so, I guess I thought we were living.

Dr. Wong:

Good thing smiles are contagious.

Cory:

Absolutely. Living on a little deficit almost single-handedly brought that up on the way in here.

Dr. Wong:

Everyone knows how to smile. Everyone likes it. So just kind of reminding people that it’s okay to smile. That’s a great way just like, it’s okay to relax. It’s okay to let that backpack go once in a while.

Cory:

Yeah give yourself some love.

Dr. Wong:

The smile is a great gateway into that.

Cory:

Absolutely.

Dr. Wong:

Nervous system balance.

Cory:

Yeah. Harder to play with smile you know.

Dr. Wong:

So, that’s great. So Cory. I know you have an amazing morning routine. So that’s one of our closing questions is. How’s your morning routine? If you do have one, I suppose. But I believe you had shared before that you do have some.

Cory:

Oh yeah. I’m sure. I got to.

Dr. Wong:

Change. Change once in a while.

Cory:

Yeah. It’s sort of always evolves you know. Yeah. Like I said. I usually get up before everybody. But I get back into bed after I use the restroom. And then I get a little water and then i’ll do a breathing technique. That I sort of you do for maybe 15 minutes. And then I usually hijack the end of that. Because the state change is so cool and my mind is such in a different place. It really sort of like is a great like. Starting gate for a good meditation and so I’ll do that for a little bit. And then I like to make my bed. I’ve heard some people talk about that is that a nice good big, good win for your day. You can always come back to a mate bed and you feel accomplished you know so that’s, yeah something.

Dr. Wong:

I’m going to check something off.

Cory:

You already checked something off. I think that’s why I like front load. So, much stuff in my day is that conversation right there it’s like I get my exercises in early because then I’ll know. I, you’ve never regretted sort of finishing a workout right. And so, I always feel like my day’s put together. I’ve put some you know, put some good food on my body. I’ve got my meditation, got my exercise underway. And then sort of shove off you know. And then whatever comes my way, I’m already good you know. It’s challenging.

Dr. Wong:

And as a healthcare practitioner and healer. As you know, it’s the most important thing is to fill your own tank before you know are of service to others. Absolutely you can do that.

Cory:

Yeah. And I’ve had to learn that over the years. Same. Absolutely. It’s nice to show up and be ready for it. I have a little tank to give. I think that’s really, that’s a fine line for providers to walk up and talk about somebody recently about it. It’s just, I think by the nature of something draws you in a profession like this. You sort of you’re good at giving and can you receive and can you sort of contain a bit. And it’s a challenge. And for everyone right? But you gotta, you know got more to give if you take care of yourself.

Dr. Wong:

Absolutely. Well, aside from the CIH podcast. What book or podcast are you enjoying the most?

Cory:

Right now. Yeah, usually. My strategy lately has been to sort of dive into a topic of and I’ll go like four books deep into one sort of you know one topic. So, I was like you know a little while back it was all the habit books you know it was Atomic habits and some James Clear, and some the Power of Habit. And then I got Essentialism, Greg McKeown, was a really good one. Lately, I don’t know. I do a lot of sort of some self-help stuff and some you know some Noah Harari stuff. I just, I don’t know. I’m all over the map with it.

Dr. Wong:

Got a library there.

Cory:

Yeah. Building it a bit I guess. Yeah. And that’s in the podcast. I just. I don’t know. I’m so into the content that’s available to people these days. It’s just. It’s infinite and it’s such a great medium to have a engaging conversation with somebody that you can dive in a little bit and really like explore some content without any breaks or you know sponsorships and all these types of things. Nothing anything wrong with that people got to make a dollar. But you know. What I mean it’s just you get to explore what people are really into and so yeah. Go, you know the the onus is then on ourselves to be the filter. The content is not the sort of, it’s not the problem right? We’ve got enough content to fill up a world. But right it’s sort of, it’s really. In chinese medicine, your small intestines really sort of work in overtime these days to sort of filter what comes into the body information. What gets absorbed in, and what doesn’t. Right? And I think you have to really be your own filter and do that yourself right. Who’s going to.

Dr. Wong:

Certainly in this day and age, absolutely.

Cory:

Absolutely and just to sort of be mindful. I sort of, I’m a bit of a mentalist in certain types and I sort of starve myself of certain types of content you know.

Dr. Wong:

Intentionally.

Cory:

Intentionally, I don’t like real theatrical sort of information that has an agenda. So, I just, I like to get real. I like to read my content because it just attracts from that a bit you know the theatrics of it a bit so.

Dr. Wong:

Right, right.

Cory:

There’s no shortage of it. You just got to be sort of conscious of what you’re feeling and referrals to content are just as good as referrals to practitioners. And so, make sure that you know where they say you are the five people that you sort of hang out though. It’s the most I think of this day and age. Especially with the content. I could listen to Dr. Wong’s podcast and be hanging out with him a bunch of times a week. And then maybe you know I become a little bit of a, of what you’ve got.

Dr. Wong:

Same. Same with you Cory. Absolutely! One more thing. So, what do you do every day to cultivate joy? You know, we know that joy and purpose is a really, they’re really key aspects of health and wellness. So just kind of curious what you’re on your docket for cultivating joy?

Cory:

Oh fun. Well, back to the gratitude. You know kick it off with a good sort of thing. Thanks to be alive, right. It’s great to sort of twitch your feet on the ground so you should be sort of a good one to kick off with. I sort of designed my life in a way that I can optimize the places that I find joy in right and actually be there and present to enjoy them. You know, walking my kids to the bus this morning is the most fun thing I’ve ever done today right. So I like being a dad and I like sort of taking care of kids. There’s a lot of children being in a relationship and a loving relationship with my wife.

Dr. Wong:

Yeah. Lots of joy. So great.

Cory:

Lots of love. That’s so great you got to build it though you know. So you just arrive sometimes you go.

Dr. Wong:

And love is the foundation for wellness you know seriously.

Cory:

Hundred percent.

Dr. Wong:

You know this is something that we definitely like to cultivate here with our clinic. But it starts with great people like yourself Cory. So, thank you so much for coming on today.

Cory:

My pleasure.

Dr. Wong:

Your spirit presence very much appreciated love by all of us. If you enjoyed this conversation please take a moment to leave us a review. It helps our podcast reach more listeners and thank you so much for taking the time to be with us today.

Cory:

Absolutely amazing! Thanks for having me.